Rude 4 year old.

[ImFree2doasiwant]

I'm at my wits end with him. Dc1 is not like it at all, never has been. Ds2 has been doted on,and somewhat indulged as a toddler, by GPS but still had the same upbringing as ds1.

DM picks both dc up from school for me 1 day a week. There is literally no way around this other than me giving up work, and being unable to pay the mortgage.

Each time, I'm getting home to find he's refused to eat dinner, has been rude, and badly behaved. He refuses to say goodbye, or days it in such an offhand unpleasant way. It's upsetting my parents, and it's upsetting me that I'm stuck in this situation.

Hes said that he wants me to pick him up. I do all drop offs and all pick ups apart from this 1

I don't know how to deal with it.

At that age my son was very tired after school and would also play up if grandma picked him up.

I worked out that Grandma had a nap in the afternoon and was full of beans when she picked him up from school and wanted to do lots of lovely things with him but of course he was tired and irritable and they clashed.

So we arranged she would pick him up and be very low key and sit him down at hers and instead of him having a new toy or activity he would have his tea early and then have a quiet time with grandma.

As luck would have it she loved doing jigsaw puzzles and he was very keen so they would often do that together.

More exciting and boisterous activities were done at the weekends and holidays.

What day of the week is it? If it’s late in the week could you swap it for a Mon/Tue when he will be less tired and have seen more of you recently (ie at the weekend). First term at school is an absolute killer for many kids even if they appear ok, it’s a lot to take in. Especially post covid.

Is it possible your DM is expecting him to behave the same as his brother and forgetting he’s younger (my parents do this with my two)?

Is your eldest the classic compliant older child (sounds like it) and your younger one isn’t and your mum might be reacting to that? In some way favouring eldest/comparing them?

Perhaps it’s a misplaced attempt to be funny? Younger siblings often see this as their role.

It all does sound like attention seeking. Almost 5 year olds really do not “understand exactly what they are doing”. They understand that certain things get a reaction but they really have no idea how they might be making a adult feel. They are doing it for attention not to hurt, IMO.

I think you are overreacting a bit because you feel guilty about your mum when she does so much. But if she’s going to do childcare she will need to take it less personally and understand that 4 yr olds can be vile sometimes especially at the end of their first term.

Good luck

I think you need to introduce consequences to his actions. I am sure you know your son and taking his privileges on the days he misbehaved is a start point.

Oh for goodness sake, time for a new wife

Good post mini pie.

He really wants you after a day at school. I know it's hard and obviously you need to tackle the rudeness but maybe if you tell him that he can have some special time with you when you get home. Then he has something to look forward to and it might help h hold it together until you get there.

It's normal for 4 year olds to be atrocious after a day at school. Also Reception class may well be supposed to be play based but they put a huge amount of pressure on them at a very young age.

@Imdreamingofapeacefulxmas I understand what you are saying, equally I can't just ignore the behaviour. Nothing is expected of him, they come in and can play, watch TV, do as they please while dinner is cooked. I asked him what he wanted for dinner thinking it would help, today's was entirely his choice. He shouts, and does speak rudely. I know he's 4, but it's just not OK.

Which day of the week does mum do?
Friday when he's exhausted or Monday when he's not into the school routine.

I'd do a snazzy star chart, one for each child. They can earn stars for manners, trying tea, eating nicely, lovely manners etc.
a bit of competition might help

Oh and make sure he has time to decompress, veg in front of the tv, or time with fav Lego etc before he's 'asked' to do something 'come to the table' etc

He might be acting out due to tiredness. If your DM only has them one day a week, I'd tell her it's fine to stick them in front of the TV and keep interaction to a minimum when she collects them. Then save quality grandparent time for when they're not so tired.

@minipie I do feel guilty and I think its upsetting me more than DM. I think she's sad that they had such a good relationship and it seems to be being lost. He is definitely the favoured child, older ds was compared unfavourably to younger a lot in the past .

It's today that day has picked up so shouldn't be too tired.

I will prep him more. Ds1 has an amazing memory abd never needs reminding, it will never come as a surprise that it's nanny at school not me. I will start telling DS2 in the mornings again that it will be nanny and talking through the after school "routine"

I do know he doesn't raise that he's upsetting people, but as a pp saud, I also know my son. He knows its not alright. I just need to try and help him work through it.

Thanks, this has helped a lot.

I really sympathise with you OP, my DS was like this at 4. He still can be at 6, although it’s toned down slightly (maybe). Very defiant, seems like a grumpy, ungrateful teenager.

You mention your DS has struggled to settle at school. Have you had much info about that?

[quote ImFree2doasiwant]@Imdreamingofapeacefulxmas I understand what you are saying, equally I can't just ignore the behaviour. Nothing is expected of him, they come in and can play, watch TV, do as they please while dinner is cooked. I asked him what he wanted for dinner thinking it would help, today's was entirely his choice. He shouts, and does speak rudely. I know he's 4, but it's just not OK.[/quote]
Don't ask him what he wants, give him two options. Same with everything in as far as is possible. Do you want the red or the yellow? Do you want to ride your bike or your scooter? Would you like two stories or three?

I would remind him Santa has a naughty list.
Watch the Ice Age Mammoth Christmas..

@Confusedandworried321 he was fine the first week and half, then we had to isolate, then he was ok for a couple of days but then we had about 2 or 3 weeks of tears at drop off. Totally out of the blue. He'd been doing 4 long (8 til 4) days at pre school since for 18 months and was very much looking forward to starting g school. Again he saud he missed me but I think he missed pre school (different setting altogether, nit attached to school) he'd known the staff there since he was born as his brother went then he started himself at 2. The teachers have said he's fine now and we do have chats about it often. He has lots of friends and seems happy. It was all a bit unexpected.

@50ShadesOfCatholic they take it in turns to choose Tuesdays dinner now. Neither are fussy, he just uses it as a tool I think. We have no problems any other time, they both eat well. As a pp said he's taking a bit of control.

He is old enough to know how to behave, especially when it comes to manners. He should be saying bye, thank you and please, he should be showing respect.

He needs consequences to his actions. You need to get GPS on the same page and be firm.

You take away the things he likes doing - he doesn't get to play with x toy, he doesn't get to go the place he wants, he gets taken away from the place he is in and behaving badly in.
Get a hold of it now or it will continue and grow,

He's only 4 presumably dealing with starting school and grandparents collecting. Obviously boundaries need to be set but an at the time consequence would work better than a later threat as young children often react in the moment without a thought to later on. Would a time out/loss of toy or activity work? Also a reward chart or pompom jar to encourage good behaviour as well as lots of reminding why it's important that you work.

Yes I understand, I overreact when DC misbehave around my parents, partly guilt as they are so nice to DC, partly embarrassment as I don’t want them to think I’m a terrible parent!!

But then you get a vicious cycle where you tell off DC for being rude to granny, DC then associates seeing granny with being told off and is more likely to act up, and granny is left with a bad end to her childcare day.

It’s good it’s bothering your mum less than you. Maybe discuss it with her, say you are going to back off a bit and see if that helps. That way you won’t feel the need to jump on him to protect your mum/show you are doing something iyswim?

Also talk to DS, not telling off/consequences exactly but telling him how it makes you feel and granny feel and does he prefer a cross upset mummy and granny at the end of Tuesdays or a happy mummy and granny? Which is more fun??

One last thing - is he acting up because you’re trying to have a chat with your mum at pick up time and he sees you as ignoring him? Again, I find this often happens when I see my mum with my DC .

Op I'm watching with interest because while I drop and pick up my dd every day, she has been losing her mind with tantrums and being just awful to be around recently. I do keep in mind that she is just 4 (July baby) and try to remind myself that she's tired but when she's screaming at me I DONT LIKE BOLOGNESE, I WANT BREAD while I'm serving up dinner it makes me want to run away to the country on my own!! I know she's tired but jeez her behaviour has been difficult since starting school.

When my son was four he used to cry all the way home after school. He loved school, but it was just because he was tired and releasing stress from the day, it was really difficult. I think a similar thing is going on here, but just manifesting itself in a different way.
I don’t know about all the punitive measures that are being suggested, I think they might be counter productive. The sticker chart sounds like a good idea.

I don’t know about all the punitive measures that are being suggested, I think they might be counter productive.

Completely agree. Tired 4 yr olds are not sufficiently in self control to think, I mustn’t do that, because last time I got put to bed early. Let alone the Santa naughty list suggestion what are they going to do, put a switch and a lump of coal in his stocking?

He can be challenging at times, he shouts and screams and stamps in a proper tantrum. This doesn't really get to me in the same way.

He doesn't behave like it the rest of the days when I pick up, and it's nit because I'm chatting with mum as he starts the minute she collects him .

I'm glad someone pointed out the vicious circle though. I dobt want him to associate nanny picking up with being told off. I'm struggling a bit with this though, she often takes them to a fun activity which they LOVE. He'd go every week if he could, but now after 2 bad weeks I don't feel its right for them to do the fun thing next week.

You choose your battles with tired 4 year olds surely talk to him about being kind and when he refuses to say goodbye remind him later that it's kind to say goodbye but really I wouldn't start doling out punishments over the head of it.

@Thinkbiglittleone

He is old enough to know how to behave, especially when it comes to manners. He should be saying bye, thank you and please, he should be showing respect.

He needs consequences to his actions. You need to get GPS on the same page and be firm.

You take away the things he likes doing - he doesn't get to play with x toy, he doesn't get to go the place he wants, he gets taken away from the place he is in and behaving badly in.
Get a hold of it now or it will continue and grow,

This is terrible advice. Punishing an already unhappy, very young, child will not improve his behaviour.