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Original poster

Rude 4 year old.

169 replies

ImFree2doasiwant · 07/12/2021 19:05

I'm at my wits end with him. Dc1 is not like it at all, never has been. Ds2 has been doted on,and somewhat indulged as a toddler, by GPS but still had the same upbringing as ds1.

DM picks both dc up from school for me 1 day a week. There is literally no way around this other than me giving up work, and being unable to pay the mortgage.

Each time, I'm getting home to find he's refused to eat dinner, has been rude, and badly behaved. He refuses to say goodbye, or days it in such an offhand unpleasant way. It's upsetting my parents, and it's upsetting me that I'm stuck in this situation.

Hes said that he wants me to pick him up. I do all drop offs and all pick ups apart from this 1

I don't know how to deal with it.

OP posts:
Embracelife · 07/12/2021 20:42

Behaviour is communication.
He is four
Five is young too.ignore, be calm, dangerous make battles
Clear visual calendar
Today is granny
Tomorrow is mum

Embracelife · 07/12/2021 20:43

Don't make battles.
He is not his brother

Imdreamingofapeacefulxmas · 07/12/2021 20:44

8-4 is a very long day isn't it.

Op I think you've misunderstood me.

I don't mean ignore this clearly outrageously disgraceful behaviour I mean... Don't come down on him like a ton of bricks. Don't reinforce bad behavior by saying he's being rude and that your "fumin" with him.

What I mean is that once you start to push back against toddlers and young dc you enter into a war of wills. That's because their brain is not developed yet but as an adult yours is.
So as the adult you can come at the problem with different strategies that your four year old won't understand yet.

One strategy is to back off and behave differently. Not expect anything from him like the goodbye or to eat his dinner.

That's not doing nothing, that's re setting the setting to pull back, change everyone's behavior and then gently start again when he knows he's not going somewhere people expect certain things of him.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

Behaviour & development Families
Anycolourwilldo · 07/12/2021 20:44

Banning tv time in our house is the only thing that effectively works. Maybe try that?

Imdreamingofapeacefulxmas · 07/12/2021 20:46

Pumper the bumper I'm glad someone else is shocked at some of the advice on here. It beggars belief.

Children need to learn gently at their own pace they are not born knowing everything.

minipie · 07/12/2021 20:47

Tricky, if you ask her not to take them to fun activity then you’re potentially making her the bad guy (even if you say it’s your decision it’s still an association).

If he is tired it is a bit understandable that he reacts badly to it not being mummy picking him up. I think pre warning him that it’s nanny’s day today, as you said, will help a lot. Maybe there is something she could bring to pick up (a special snack?) that he doesn’t get with you?

campion · 07/12/2021 20:48

Blimey Thinkbiglittleone that's all a bit harsh for a 4 year old who's missing his mum, had a bit of a disrupted couple of years, and is struggling a bit to settle into school. It just might be because he's four and doesn't understand concepts such as rudeness, manners etc in the way that you do.

Maybe he's tired? Maybe Nanny presses the wrong buttons after school. Who knows? Maybe he shouldn't be compared to the golden older child either. They all come with their own personalities.

The main thing OP is that he's four so lives in the moment. He'll get used to school routine, Nanny picking him up etc as time goes on.

HotPenguin · 07/12/2021 20:49

You say his behaviour is bad, but the examples you give are not eating his dinner and not saying bye. I wouldn't call that bad behaviour. It sounds to me like you and your mum are making a big deal out of this. He wants his mum to collect him and that's ok. He's not trying to hurt his granny. If I was her I'd just say oh yes, you prefer it when mummy picks you up I know, she'll be back later. Why don't you draw her a picture of what you did at school today?

My turning into a big deal about rudeness I think you are creating a battle you can't win.

Thinkbiglittleone · 07/12/2021 20:58

This is terrible advice. Punishing an already unhappy, very young, child will not improve his behaviour.

No, if the OP has chosen that manners is one of her issues, then this should be addressed, you can nurture a child as well as setting boundaries for bad behaviour. If there are no boundaries a child is likely or be less happy as they do not know what is expected of them, when these boundaries are pushed, there needs to be consequences.

I love that people seem to think that because you lay down boundaries and consequence you don't show love, compassion and understanding - you do all of these things. You also show a child that they are allowed to feel however they want and it's good that they express those feelings, but we teach them the best way to do that and it's not by being disrespectful to people.

Laying down rules and boundaries, does not mean that you don't have a loving and fun house, if anything the house will become more fun as the child knows what's expected of them.

Original poster
ImFree2doasiwant · 07/12/2021 21:01

@HotPenguin I haven't described what his behaviour is, but I can say that it is bad. I dobt need to go into detail, but its non stop fir the 2 hours. Shouting at nanny to shut up (which he seems to have picked up from school) It is bad behaviour, I'm not exaggerating it.

@campion he is the golden child (in GPS eyes)

OP posts:
MonsterKidz · 07/12/2021 21:01

My initial reaction was he lacks connection with your Mum. But your further updates seem to show that isn’t the case.
Could it be a case of separation anxiety? If you are there the rest of the time, it could be that this one day of not being there is causing him anxiety. How does he behave with your Mum when it’s not a pick up situation?

Original poster
ImFree2doasiwant · 07/12/2021 21:04

@Thinkbiglittleone the first thing i did was to sit and have a big cuddle with him. It was clear he wasn't happy. DM is very nurturing. I hope we can find find way for him to express himself without the sort of behaviour he has shown today

OP posts:
Thinkbiglittleone · 07/12/2021 21:04

It just might be because he's four and doesn't understand concepts such as rudeness, manners etc in the way that you do.

At 4, most children understand manners and rudeness if they have been taught them, it sounds like this child has been, as the OP holds them as quite important. Have a consequence for rudeness is not harsh.

Maybe he's tired? Maybe Nanny presses the wrong buttons after school. Who knows? Maybe he shouldn't be compared to the golden older child either. They all come with their own personalities

I agree children should never be compared, that is cruel and will cause more problems for both children. Their individuality should be embraced.

Original poster
ImFree2doasiwant · 07/12/2021 21:05

@MonsterKidz I'm just wondering actually if he misses the times he used to have one to one time with his nanny. With work and school there isn't often an opportunity now.

OP posts:
Imdreamingofapeacefulxmas · 07/12/2021 21:11

Maybe your ds dissent see her in that way.

It's his perspective after all, you don't know what's going on and unfortunately unless you investigate you won't find out.
Something is triggering him, it could be her house, the lights, her car, her perfume, a pet as pp said maybe she's too bouncy for him.. Maybe she expects too much of him maybe she's scaring him maybe someone at school looks like her and he doesn't like that person maybe that day he has tough lessons or pe and he's exhausted...
He might lack that self reflection at four.
He might not know to tell you.. Mummy it's the lights at grandams they hurt my eyes and give me a headache..

DuckbilledSplatterPuff · 07/12/2021 21:12

I agree with the posters saying he is exhausted by school. Mine were and the end of the Christmas term was particularly tiring. They were Hangry at pick up and maybe your GPs need to meet him with a small sandwich and a drink because he may not be able to wait and this often used to be the cause of meltdowns from my lot.
He may have had a difficult day and just needs to relax, not talk or expected to perform company manners, which he can do with you but not them.
Don't keep forcing the saying goodbye ceremony. It could be that its becoming a big telling off performance. He knows that you all think he's in the bad books and maybe its all just too much. He will probably say it naturally if its not forced and in a telling off way
Take him out at a non stress time, and chat to him nicely and see you can talk to him about it, get him to suggest things so that he has to think about how it could work better or what the best behaviour would be.
Yes, he needs to learn to behave but sometimes they need a bit of space after school to regain their equilibrium

Hercisback · 07/12/2021 21:12

Is your mum available any other evenings? Could she accompany you for joint pick ups so ds is used to seeing her after school? Could she do a couple of extra just her pick ups and then bring him home? It might just be that it's so 'rare' at once a week he can't settle on it.

Feel free to ignore if you don't think this will help. My ds has 3 different types of pick up /after school combinations in a week and we give him warnings starting the night before. Eg. xx is picking up tonight, or You've got after school club tomorrow.

Imdreamingofapeacefulxmas · 07/12/2021 21:12

But what's clear is that he's unhappy and his behaviour is telling you that.

ZippyZap · 07/12/2021 21:12

It sounds like he is probably releasing built up stress from school, he wants you to collect him so naturally he is taking it out on Nanny and feeling even more 'coke bottle effect' because it isn't you.
I would think of activities to help him self calm after school, ask your Mum not to over load him on pick up, don't ask questions, give him a big hug, hand him a favourite snack and perhaps go to the park to burn off that steam after school. Or lots of bouncing on a trampoline at home if you have one, bike riding, something physical for him to get rid of that feeling. I wouldn't restrict gadget or screen time too much on those days either, mine were especially grumpy after school in those first few years!

Pumperthepumper · 07/12/2021 21:12

@Thinkbiglittleone

This is terrible advice. Punishing an already unhappy, very young, child will not improve his behaviour.

No, if the OP has chosen that manners is one of her issues, then this should be addressed, you can nurture a child as well as setting boundaries for bad behaviour. If there are no boundaries a child is likely or be less happy as they do not know what is expected of them, when these boundaries are pushed, there needs to be consequences.

I love that people seem to think that because you lay down boundaries and consequence you don't show love, compassion and understanding - you do all of these things. You also show a child that they are allowed to feel however they want and it's good that they express those feelings, but we teach them the best way to do that and it's not by being disrespectful to people.

Laying down rules and boundaries, does not mean that you don't have a loving and fun house, if anything the house will become more fun as the child knows what's expected of them.

Punishing a four year old for his behaviour is not showing him love. It’s showing an incredible lack of understanding of that four year old. It’s expecting him to make the connection hours later for behaviour his very young brain made him do.
Hercisback · 07/12/2021 21:14

Also ignore the lack of goodbye for now. DS refuses to say goodbye to the after school club leaders. I got really worked up about it but then realised it doesn't really matter. One day I'll pick up on it but for now he's just knackered when I collect him and wants to be home ASAP.

Original poster
ImFree2doasiwant · 07/12/2021 21:20

@Hercisback DM has done a pick up on this day since he started pre school at 2 so it's not a new thing . She lives quite a way so not really practical to do other days.

She picks up, hands them a snack, brings them to my house, and follows my routine.

I think it must be school being still new and a lot, and I've stopped reminding him it's nanny's day.

I'm grateful for all of the opinions.

OP posts:
Hercisback · 07/12/2021 21:25

Ahh sorry missed she'd been doing it so long. It sounds like she is great with him. I'd keep reminding him that it's nanny on pick up on her day.

I also echo a PP who said talk to him at a low stress time about it. Perhaps a Saturday morning when he's more relaxed.

I hope you find an answer. I don't think lots of punishment is the right way to go.

Cuwins · 07/12/2021 21:26

No experience of this but one thing that did jump to my mind was about the saying goodbye.
When I was a child my mum and grandparents always expected that I would give them a hug and kiss goodbye. I always found this very difficult and must have come across as very rude at times- avoiding it, pulling away or simply refusing. As an adult I understand that (unlike my mum) I do not like much touch and my mum didn't understand this. I'm more like my dad this way.
Also if I was having a bad day anyway e.g very tired, then the having to hug/kiss goodbye could play on my mind for hours before hand.
Im guessing it's not that but thought it was worth putting out there.

Original poster
ImFree2doasiwant · 07/12/2021 21:27

No, tbh there's nit much in the way of punishment that I could think of. He's pretty unmoved by most things! He went to bed early tonight, but it was quiet time listening to a story and I felt he needed a rest. It wasn't sent to bed with no dinner. Abd actually, I was with him (just him) for quite a while too so not really a punishment.

OP posts: