Entire Tube Line to close?! Is this real or a bargain tactic

[onlychildhamster]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-59459947

Some sources speculate that it is the jubilee line, some sources speculate that it's the bakerloo line. I admit to being personally invested as DH commutes to canary wharf from north London and uses this line daily; if it closes, he has to get the DLR and you can imagine how crowded that would be as Jubilee line is already packed...

Buses are one fare regardless of how far you travel. And if you change, you still only pay the one fare if it’s within an hour.

If that single fare went up it would probably lead to more people walking the shorter journeys of possible, but would be a blow for those who use the bus out of necessity for short journeys. For the longest ones across London, £1.55 is very cheap.

Tubes are much more expensive.

@onlychildhamster
Westfield Stratford is the place to go for a lot of locals - Stratford High Street and the Stratford Centre have sort of linked with Westfield to form the 'town centre', except that Westfield offers the most coffee/ lunch/ socialising space. Add in the cold weather and it is always very busy. The centre is also the main pedestrian route for the Olympic Village development which is significant.

@Badbadbunny

Perhaps it's time to increase fares and reduce/remove the number of people who get exemptions from fares.

^^This. It's clearly not sustainable

@Stripyhoglets1

London is being punished for not voting for a Tory mayor/tory MPs. Seen it up here in the former red wall - you get promised money if you have a tory MP/council. Starved of cash of you don't to try and force a vote to the tories next time. This is how they operate. The pandemic means life will never involve as much commuting as it did before for alot of people.

Mmm, you might want to take a look at how much money red wall towns have received in exchange for their vote before adopting that as a working hypothesis.

Knowing his past record with allowing housing developments he'll be building over the tracks and will be converting the stations into luxury flats.

Yes if DH goes in it's Tues-Thurs. The odd monday he has gone in he's alone in his dept.

@onlychildhamster investment banks have probably being the most stringent about bringing people back in.

@hygtt a lot of people are still not back but they tend to be people who are comfy about their position. my Dh is angling for a promotion and started in a new team and hence needs visibility. He wants to network with senior management and that is easier in the office.

Thats the thing about WFh, its all very well WFH if you are sitting nicely and securely in a VP or ED position (esp ED position) and you don't see how the extra effort will help you with promotion. But things can and do change and a lot of people aren't in those secure positions anyway.

@julieca

TBH if they were free for kids in London, they should have been free everywhere.

They're free in the sense that there is a negotiated deal between TfL and the London boroughs which pays for the concession.

There's nothing stopping other areas doing that. It's entirely up to your council whether it will prioritise that spending.

Perhaps it's time to increase fares and reduce/remove the number of people who get exemptions from fares

^^This. It's clearly not sustainable

It should be, as it's paid for by every London council tax payer. It's not just a hit taken by TfL, it's a service paid for by borough councils (negotiated pan-London by the GLA).

Tough negotiations next time round, I expect

@hygtt

Re the ULEZ

"Transport for London expects to earn £600m less than it hoped from the ultra-low emission zone because drivers have switched to cleaner vehicles more quickly than expected, it can be revealed.
TfL said “early indications” were that the Ulezz – which expanded to the suburbs on October 25 – would not generate as much cash as it hoped due to “greater compliancee” with the rules."

See this gives me the rage. We have to listen to the mayor sanctimoniously saying how every Londoner deserves clean air but this just confirms it's a money making exercise. Same as the congestion charge going 24/7. Show me the congestion in the City at 7 am on a Sunday morning? There's a reason they film zombie films there at that time.

I get that they need money and covid has been a disaster but give us some credit and call it what it is.

In Birmingham travel is more expensive - it's £4 for two or more journeys by bus on one network and then you have to pay again if you go on another bus network and its at least £6 peak to travel in by train from a Burb

I like the london integrated travel system - like travel cards for instance that serve rail and bus - I wish we had something like that up here - it's going to only get more complicated.

I am an ex Londoner - I moved 20 years ago, we've been playing catchup in the Midlands for ever.

Sorry not 24/7 - 7 days a week 07-22:00

DH works for TFL in engineering - it isn’t scaremongering, they absolutely on their knees. Not enough staff, no money to invest in new plant - some of the stuff they keeps the network running is from the 50s.

They can no longer do preventative maintenance on plant, it is just fix at fail. Loads of people have retired and they can’t recruit new engineering staff as there has been a headcount freeze.

There is a massive funding gap and had it not been for COVID they may have been able to be self funding but COVID has absolutely put an unrecoverable hole in the balance sheet. They predicted that they would have 70% of pre COVID travel back but it is about 55-60%

I think they will have to cut services - they have no choice as they aren’t allowed to run without sufficient funds.

@Stretchandsnap unless government bails it out.

My brother works for another rail company in the south east @Stretchandsnap and have been told by the DfT they need to cut their budget by an eye watering amount of money.

It is a main commuter route into London and will mean significantly reducing services, not upgrading badly in need stations and trains , which are so old they break down frequently.

For those banging on about nationalising the railway, in effect this is already happening and by the middle of 2022 it will be on its knees.

@Sallycinnamum So its as bad as TFL. Except worse because there is only 1 line in for commuter networks while londoners can often walk to other stations.

Pretty much @onlychildhamster.

If you're a medium size train company and the government tells you to save £30m its going to be the large scale projects that go such as late night and off peak services, new trains, investment in stations etc etc.

Add a huge voluntary redundancy scheme into the mix so less staff , you're looking at the bad old days of British Rail and they were bad days despite what the rose tinted glasses of the Labour Party would like to think.

Except worse because there is only 1 line in for commuter networks while londoners can often walk to other stations.

To be fair once you get outside central London you can't really walk to another station. It's a 40 minute walk to the nearest other line from me. Longer than my actual commute.

[quote onlychildhamster]@HundredMilesAnHour the cananry wharf shops are ok, i suppose for a lunchtime browse, but I would prefer westfield. Westfield is on the same line too! I saw quite a few buggies too, i thought maybe there were a few residents but I wouldn't have thought there were that many...[/quote]
It's weird, isn't it? Pre-Westfield opening, the CW estate were making a huge effort to attract families and/or locals at weekends. That seemed to really take off (I held Santa's Grotto in Jubilee Place partly responsible).Then women with buggies started appearing during the week (although maybe they were also using the couple of nurseries nearby) and then late afternoon/evening/weekends, the packs of drunken young women (usually hen parties). Most bizarre given that Westfield is so close. Canary Wharf wouldn't be my hen destination of choice but....

I suppose CW is so much smaller so very manageable compared to Westfield. And completely safe with security people and cameras everywhere. Whereas Stratford does attract a less desirable 'crowd'. Especially if you leave Westfield and head across to the Stratford centre.

@onlychildhamster I think there are pros to being in the office but that's why I think the hybrid model works & that model seems to be the most popular. After all of senior management are also hybrid then they won't see you if your in 5 days a week.

@OhamIreally I did read pollution levels have gone down if that's some comfort.

I often drove to the museums or shops on Sunday's when parking was easier (was it free I can't remember) & it was always so empty

When I was at uni (outside of London) & got a bus for the first time there I nearly fell over when they told me the fair!

fare!

My heart is breaking for the city as the adjustment will be deep.
I’m hearing that xmas parties are being cancelled, how many pubs clubs will shut now?

I wonder if it's cyclical? My parents are immigrants & moved to z2/3 because they wanted a cheap house & because it was all my dad knew. Lots of his colleagues thought it was a bit weird & I remember one of my geography books saying inner areas were not desirable, I think it called them ghettos!

@ClaudiaWankleman trains were way cheaper under British Rail. Yes catering was not good, but trains weren't that much more than coaches. Now there is a vast price differential and it is much cheaper for me to drive anywhere than take the train.