Entire Tube Line to close?! Is this real or a bargain tactic

[onlychildhamster]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-59459947

Some sources speculate that it is the jubilee line, some sources speculate that it's the bakerloo line. I admit to being personally invested as DH commutes to canary wharf from north London and uses this line daily; if it closes, he has to get the DLR and you can imagine how crowded that would be as Jubilee line is already packed...

@DrHildegardeLanstrom

Waterloo and city? Would anyone notice?

This is the busiest route I've ever seen at rush hour !!!

@hygtt I am not sure. If i was in the home counties now, I may consider quitting the commuting lifestyle if it stretches any longer than what I am comfortable with. Or choose a wfh job. My current commute is 40 mins, DH's is 50 minutes so I think we can probably stomach a few more mins.

I wojkdbt be so sure. I know a TfL employer and they told me they were down to the wife last time on the bailout. Its a very real!

Boris removed the government grant so TfL is the only public transport in a major city in the world to pay its own way.

Then the vehicle tax that London drivers pay doesn't get spent in London its spent fixing roads outside of London.

Theb we have the ulez introduced and they aren't even going to make the forecasted amount they thought they would from fines. Almost £600m was forecasted but people have been too compliant.

People need public transport if there is this huge environmental push. Id rather money was spent on things like public transport and helping those companies out as opposed to many other things.

I mean look how many billions was lost yo fraud during the pandemic. All that wasted money.

And dont forget TfL has a large supply chain so its not about the employees itll affect many other businesses too.

@hygtt yes I got that!

@BananaBlue oh sorry "There’s very very little for 4hrs* inside the zone." confused me.

@BananaBlue yep our punishment for not voting Bailey, the man who thought that Watford was in London and actually went to campaign there. Oh and my DH once witnessed him being trapped in a narrow Chinatown van for 2 hours during campaign season, the fumes from his electon van permeating the air as diners sat outside restaurants (it was that time during the pandemic when you could only dine outdoors and the restaurants just opened after a long lockdown).

@onlychildhamster are you old though? Many people already make the move to the home counties because of lifestyle eg kids, more space. So many friends & neighbours have left over the last few years. About 6 kids from my dc's class. They were probably going to do it at some point anyway but covid was the trigger. I'd move too if it wasn't for being local & having family close.

TFL is asking for what? £1-2b? I’d bail it out for at least another year, assess what Covid changes are permanent and then talk long term strategy.

Compared to say… T&T that’s a teeny amount Esp if the alternative freezes movement in London.

Daily, 2million used the tube pre Covid. That’s a lot of fares lost 😢

Commuting has changed, CW is a ghost town, many places working hybrid. DH reports that the City of London is still very quiet, I’m z1 and it’s quieter.

Having said that, closing one line can cause all sorts of displacement chaos, eg if central line had an issue then other lines would be affected and you could guarantee some ‘overcrowded station’ closures.

Choosing what to close will be a logistical nightmare.

I voted Sadiq but I'm not a fan of some of the LTNs & I know some locals are furious.

I also think the ULEZ has been too successful & just stopped people driving into it as opposed to raising money.

@hygtt Nope I am 29. We also stayed local due to family and DH being a born and bred Londoner. I also live in zone 3 as I am at a stage of my life where the cost of commuter fares matter much more than any space or lifestyle and I want to go into the office; but at the same time I also wanted to own so zone 3 was an acceptable compromise. However, thats why i think this would affect people who have longer commutes. If I was older with a long commute, it would be tempting to move to the regions as I could retire earlier than if i stayed in London and then I could progressively wind down my career.

DH reports that the City of London is still very quiet, I’m z1 and it’s quieter.

DH says the same, he was surprised when he first starting driving & the journey was so quick & no change in September.

I think I read Black Friday only increased footfall slightly compared to previous years so there is definitely a shift.

I don't know anyone back in the office full time though although most people I know already had the option to wfh before it's just increased now.

Wow, I'm Irish (used to live in London) and I'm surprisingly shocked that a tube line might close.

I disagree that the circle line wouldn't be missed. That's what makes easy changes possible. The circle line is the reason you just know (if you have enough time) you can go from anywhere to anywhere.

Dare I say it, they should put up the fares a bit. The cost of the tube was (in my day) reasonable compared to the above ground rail fares that some of my colleagues were paying.

In fact another circle line a coup of miles out would be good.

I voted for Khan to keep Bailey out.

I heard an interview with Khan - only 200k or so cars were non ULEZ compliant so I don’t think they expected to make huge amounts.

The LTNs are nuts.
The first time I drove through London post lockdown I was horrified by some of the new cycle lanes on major trunk roads.

I’m all for keep cyclists safe but taking a lane out from what’s already stop/start/crawl traffic seemed nuts to me.

I’m specifically thinking Euston Underpass, I sat in rush hour like traffic late around 10pm on a sat night. I know this because it took so long The congestion ended so I could drive through it.

The waterloo and city line, that was SO BUSY when I moved out of London (to surrey) that I often had to walk. I wonder if it's still as bad.
I was a young nipper then, heaven help anybody older on that cattle wagon every morning.

@hygtt I only know 1 person FT in office and that’s through choice.

Everyone else inc me is 1/2 days.

My heart is breaking for the city as the adjustment will be deep.
I’m hearing that xmas parties are being cancelled, how many pubs clubs will shut now?
What affect will that have on nightlife, tourism, TFL income? It’s a snowball.

Re the ULEZ

"Transport for London expects to earn £600m less than it hoped from the ultra-low emission zone because drivers have switched to cleaner vehicles more quickly than expected, it can be revealed.
TfL said “early indications” were that the Ulezz – which expanded to the suburbs on October 25 – would not generate as much cash as it hoped due to “greater compliancee” with the rules."

The first time I drove through London post lockdown I was horrified by some of the new cycle lanes on major trunk roads.
My local high street has bus stops now on an island away from the pavement with a gap in between for the bikes. It completely disrupts traffic flow, not sure how wheelchairs use it & to make matters worse I rarely see that many cyclists.

I hate to criticise the cycle lanes - I’m not a cyclist but the roads are/were a huge danger.

However yes I really wondered about the logic of taking a lane out of Euston underpass of all places.

I live in z3 and a road near me which never had traffic had a lane taken out for cyclists.

Now - loads of traffic, but I rarely see a cyclist down there.

Thanks re ULEZ - I knew the east number affected was very small (135k not the 200k I remembered), but clearly it’s even lower.
I know x2 people who had to change their cars.

How long before they raise the benchmark?

London is being punished for not voting for a Tory mayor/tory MPs.
Seen it up here in the former red wall - you get promised money if you have a tory MP/council. Starved of cash of you don't to try and force a vote to the tories next time.

This is how they operate.
The pandemic means life will never involve as much commuting as it did before for alot of people.

@hygtt

DH reports that the City of London is still very quiet, I’m z1 and it’s quieter.

DH says the same, he was surprised when he first starting driving & the journey was so quick & no change in September.

I think I read Black Friday only increased footfall slightly compared to previous years so there is definitely a shift.

I don't know anyone back in the office full time though although most people I know already had the option to wfh before it's just increased now.

There was a Tube strike on Black Friday so it's not representative.

I think the line closure is a threat, not a real likelihood. It doesn't fit with their other plans.

The plan is clearly to remove as much vehicle traffic as possible, including buses. Sitting on a bus in the outer burbs while one cyclist goes by in the new lane is ...well, rage inducing.

It's always discrimination for elderly and disabled and parents with pushchairs, for whom buses are better for a wide range of reasons.

I don't think there would have been much difference whoever got in - this is the London plan, remove as much vehicular traffic as possible.

DH reports that the City of London is still very quiet

It's quiet on Mon and Fri but busy Tues-Thurs. Maybe not as busy as it used to be but there's a lot of people around at rush hour and lunchtimes.

@hygtt DH is going to office 5 days a week (investment bank in canary wharf). I am expected to be hybrid in Jan.

It could all be derailed by omicron.But the thing is, I expect whatever jobs we have to involve some office working in the city or canary wharf.

@HundredMilesAnHour I had to queue to get into a macdonalds at St Paul's! I was gobsmacked.

I visted DH during his lunch break at canary wharf on a leave day and took my laptop to work at pret. I ended up having to share a table with a gentleman. Who are all these people hanging out at pret in canary wharf on a work day- and they didn't look like they were on a lunch break.

[quote onlychildhamster]@HundredMilesAnHour I had to queue to get into a macdonalds at St Paul's! I was gobsmacked.

I visted DH during his lunch break at canary wharf on a leave day and took my laptop to work at pret. I ended up having to share a table with a gentleman. Who are all these people hanging out at pret in canary wharf on a work day- and they didn't look like they were on a lunch break.[/quote]
Lunchtimes Tues-Thurs are back to being busy. I was working in my City office 2-3 days a week from July and at lunchtime I could just wander casually over the road to buy a salad. Salad shop was dead and I was usually the only customer. Sept 15 arrived and loads more people came back to work. I had such a shock when I wandered over to get my lunch and there was a wall of people in the salad shop! Now I order my salad online and just have to collect it from a shelf in the shop to save the long queues.

Canary Wharf coffee shops are always full of recruiters / consultants etc having meetings. Plus some of the offices there have such a shortage of meeting rooms that quite often people will go to Pret etc instead if it's a 1:1 or similar. But the Wharf has also become a "destination" for shoppers (even during the week now) so there are random non-office types wandering around, usually antagonising the CW workers by walking slowly when they are desperate to grab their lunch and get back to work asap.

@HundredMilesAnHour the cananry wharf shops are ok, i suppose for a lunchtime browse, but I would prefer westfield. Westfield is on the same line too! I saw quite a few buggies too, i thought maybe there were a few residents but I wouldn't have thought there were that many...