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Entire Tube Line to close?! Is this real or a bargain tactic

161 replies

onlychildhamster · 05/12/2021 11:41

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-59459947

Some sources speculate that it is the jubilee line, some sources speculate that it's the bakerloo line. I admit to being personally invested as DH commutes to canary wharf from north London and uses this line daily; if it closes, he has to get the DLR and you can imagine how crowded that would be as Jubilee line is already packed...

OP posts:
onlychildhamster · 05/12/2021 23:49

@JaniceBattersby the london economy subsidizes the rest of the UK.

www.theguardian.com/business/2017/may/23/uk-budget-deficit-grows-to-more-than-10bn-as-people-spend-less

Every Londoner provided £3,070 more in tax revenues than they received in public spending, while people living in the south-east ran a surplus of £1,670 per head. The east of England turned a small deficit in 2014-15 into a surplus of £242 per head in 2015-16.

By contrast, spending exceeded tax revenues by £5,440 per head in Northern Ireland and by £3,820 in the orth-east. Scotland, which has seen its public finances badly affected by the plunge in global oil prices, ran a deficit of £2,830 a head.

We don't complain about our tax money supporting the rest of the country. It is not workable in large swathes of london for many to have cars. In my area, they are making every street into a controlled parking zone. Also one reason why we can afford to pay more for housing in London is because many of us do without a car. When I was comparing between living in London vs the SE Home Counties, I realized that living in London was cheaper as the cost of running 2 cars and rail costs was equivalent to an extra £190k in mortgage.

Making london poorer doesn't make the regions richer. On the contrary, it makes the whole of the Uk poorer as there is less tax revenue to fund the rest of the UK.

Its like how a lot of Brexiters thought that voting brexit would mean that london would become much poorer than the regions. This graphic released 6 days ago reflects the state of the uk economy- while the UK economy has shrunk 10% (worse than greece AND italy) since the pandemic, london has only shrunk 2% in comparison so fairly decent compared to most countries in the world.

Entire Tube Line to close?! Is this real or a bargain tactic
OP posts:
Councilworker · 05/12/2021 23:52

Minimum fare where I live is £3 on the bus. Children pay half fare from age 5. Only those secondary pupils going over 3 miles to school because there's nothing closer qualify for free travel. I live 3.3 miles from the nearest High school but most of the kids in the village are at 2.8 miles so have to pay or walk. If you opt for a further school when you could have stayed local, you have to pay for it.
It's the levelling down as @JaniceBattersby noted. This is what other towns and cities have for public transport, never mind villages!

onlychildhamster · 06/12/2021 00:00

@Councilworker Does it cost £1.4 million to have a house with off street parking? Are there streets of converted flats? Do you have congestion charge? Or ULEZ, i live in the ULEZ zone and it costs £12.50 a day to drive a non compliant car. You either change your car or use public transport.

I once tried to take a Uber from zone 3 to my office in the City, i don't know what possessed me to do so, we were stuck in such terrible traffic we just got off to take the train at west hampstead.

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Ozgirl75 · 06/12/2021 00:05

I have lived overseas for the past 15 years but things have obviously changed a lot if people are talking about closing the jubilee or Waterloo and city line! Those were the two busiest lines (next to central) that I regularly used. The W and C at rush hour was so packed you would have to wait for two to go sometimes.
Equally, I can’t believe the cost! I live in Sydney and here it is subsidised but a fare into the city (40 min journey) costs about $3.00 -5 which is about £2.00-3! And station parking is free.

julieca · 06/12/2021 00:05

Agree it's a levelling down.
London will still have buses to get around.
But a cut in public transport in central London will affect tourism.

julieca · 06/12/2021 00:07

@Ozgirl75 public transport in Britain is terrible and expensive. I gave up using public transport a while ago. It is cheaper for me to run a car (outside London).

BananaBlue · 06/12/2021 00:11

Why are people so gleeful that TFL is struggling? It’s your country too, do you want it to be a shithole?

Instead of a race to the bottom we should all be aiming at levelling up.

Not all northerners voted Tory, I know this. But I find it distasteful that those in regions that got these charlatans in are happy that a region that largely voted Labour is being punished.

This is why we cannot have nice things ffs.

Incidentally didn’t the Labour manifesto want to invest in rural transport?

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/general-election-labour-party-manifesto-transport-tourism-hs2-heathrow-a9212036.html%3famp

Ozgirl75 · 06/12/2021 00:11

Last time we came back to the U.K., we went into London for the day and when they said the price of the tickets for 4 of us we were like “is that First Class?” Nope, just standard.
I do remember it being expensive when I lived there but it seems to have gone up loads in the last 15 years.

Ozgirl75 · 06/12/2021 00:13

Personally, I’m not a leftie but I believe public transport should be nationalised. I think cheap transport is a public good in the same way education or healthcare is. People should still pay but surely at this price it puts people off ever using it.

Pyewackect · 06/12/2021 00:14

The government have agreed a further bail out of over £1billion but Sadiq Khan is demanding £2billion. The treasury have told him to take a hike as TfL have already had £4b. He’s now trying to threaten Grant Shaps with closures. If all else fails the government will assume control of TfL and impose their own economic measures. The issue is The Treasury is trying to get State spending and borrowing under control. Don’t forget Crossrail is soaking up £billions in over spend and running 4 years over schedule. Comes a time when someone has to say , NO MORE.

IrishMamaMia · 06/12/2021 00:24

Following this with interest too. There's such a colossal hole in their funding, unless they agree some kind of financially sustainable plan with the government I think the bakerloo or the Hammersmith and City line will go.
I think the over 60s free travel will go and I think family of Tfl employees get free travel also, definitely room for trimming there.

Sodthebloodypicnic · 06/12/2021 00:29

Unfortunately fares are already at the limit of affordability for most low earners in London. I rotate working from different sites across the capital every month and it has been consistently cheaper to drive than get a monthly tube travelcard. I already pay over 50% of my earnings in rent - saving money is a no brainer.

If the government wants people to drive less they need to subsidise TFL.

NOTANUM · 06/12/2021 00:32

Most of London votes labour these days - except for the outer reaches like West, South and North - so the government may actually let this happen if it were not for the fact that our PM is MP for Uxbridge..
If any shut, it’ll be the Waterloo and City.

onlychildhamster · 06/12/2021 00:37

@Sodthebloodypicnic what zone do you live in? Does this include cost of depreciation of the car itself? For myself it was the opposite, cheaper to live zone 3 carless than get a car and live further out! I would always have to pay anyway as I work in the City and no one I know drives in.

OP posts:
hygtt · 06/12/2021 00:37

bargaining tool but a real threat. TFL have a huge deficit & are passenger numbers back to what they were?

BananaBlue · 06/12/2021 00:40

Fares are expensive but bear in mind TFL has frozen them for years and from what I understand they are still much cheaper than outside London.

Ive been horrified when people have discussed their rural bus fares.

That BBC link is eye opening. I’m not a huge fan of Khan, but he will be unfairly blamed for this when actually the funding was cut from £800m a year to £55m?

And that’s after Johnson ran up a huge debt.

No wonder it’s skint.

hygtt · 06/12/2021 00:41

fares shouldn't go up & I think it's bad they aren't free for kids.

julieca · 06/12/2021 00:43

TBH if they were free for kids in London, they should have been free everywhere.

hygtt · 06/12/2021 00:43

@onlychildhamster DH drives in, his company have a car park. He only goes in 1-2 days a wk though now.

BananaBlue · 06/12/2021 00:44

For driving to work:

15 congestion
20 parking (I think it would be more actually but I’m not 100% sure also I’d have to move car every 3-4hrs)
6 petrol (total guess)
And I reckon 1.5 hrs to do the 9 miles.

£8 - Tube
1hr door to door.

hygtt · 06/12/2021 00:48

DHs has free parking & journey takes 1 hr z3 to city. He much prefers it.

Sodthebloodypicnic · 06/12/2021 00:49

[quote onlychildhamster]@Sodthebloodypicnic what zone do you live in? Does this include cost of depreciation of the car itself? For myself it was the opposite, cheaper to live zone 3 carless than get a car and live further out! I would always have to pay anyway as I work in the City and no one I know drives in.[/quote]
Zone 2. I agree it generally makes more sense to live closer in, as what you spend extra on housing you'd lose more in travel. I don't often work in the congestion zone. DP can walk to work.

Yes including depreciation, I caveat that it's no flashy car, but it's a ulez compliant well maintained petrol runaround. As it's street parked my nerves couldn't cope with anything fancier Gin

hygtt · 06/12/2021 00:50

Surely it's inevitable as remote working will have a lasting impact on numbers

julieca · 06/12/2021 00:53

If fares go up and services get worse, more people will be pushing for wfh.

hygtt · 06/12/2021 00:56

it's a self perpetuating cycle. After dc I took a local job as I was sick of my tube commute, I was fed up of the crowds, delays etc.