Entire Tube Line to close?! Is this real or a bargain tactic

[onlychildhamster]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-59459947

Some sources speculate that it is the jubilee line, some sources speculate that it's the bakerloo line. I admit to being personally invested as DH commutes to canary wharf from north London and uses this line daily; if it closes, he has to get the DLR and you can imagine how crowded that would be as Jubilee line is already packed...

@Flapjacker48

I read in the paper that bus fares could go up to £2.50

I live in the "provinces", I already pay £2.50 bus fare to get DS2 to nursery. It's been that way since long before Covid. No London weighting in our salaries.

I am surprised that buses in London only cost £1.55. That is way cheaper than other places in the country.
By the way to correct an earlier post, everywhere else in the country public transport is paid only through fares as well. The exception is a small number of specific routes in an area that a local authority can subsidise through a small pot of funding. These are essential but non profitable routes. In my area they subsidise bus routes to the hospital, as otherwise they would not exist.

England bus fares, it’s horrifying. IMO as with most other vital services it should be nationalised.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/may/05/bus-fares-reveal-massively-unfair-gulf-between-london-and-rest-of-england

[quote hygtt]@onlychildhamster DH drives in, his company have a car park. He only goes in 1-2 days a wk though now. [/quote]
Does he not have to pay congestion?

@BananaBlue I think the car park is just outside it, even if it wasn't he finds it easier to drive.

It’s not just London having this problem, it’s all the local rail networks. The levels the service on the TW Metro would have to be cut back to in order to make the savings required to fill the covid black hole would make it unviable to operate at all. So I can see why TFL would have to consider closing some lines altogether.

Ironically for many people in the regions, being unable to get to work from the outer suburbs of London and the home counties (this may add 20 mins to a 1.5 hour commute) may mean many Londoners move to the regions. Where they may get a local job or wfh. Sorry do you really want lots of Londoners with huge housing equity of 600k+ to buy houses in your region? Maybe this would benefit the home owners but only those at the top of the ladder as whatever you can buy would have gone up too. You can see the effects of London in Cornwall. And this may not even involve the creation of more new jobs with more new talent- many Londoners can afford to decelerate their careers by moving to the regions. They will buy houses that they can largely pay off and then the possibilities are endless. What effect does it have on the local population to have so many londoners buying up property?

@RobinPenguins are they cutting back on the SE commuter network?

Are who cutting back on the SE commuter network? I mean the Tyne & Wear metro. My point is, if TFL is as financially screwed as our local light rail system then no, this is probably not just a bargaining tool, they will be considering all kind of unpalatable options for the system to survive.

I reckon bargaining tactic. There’re about to open a new line the Elizabeth line so seems bonkers to close another one plus I love the Hammersmith and city line, a very useful one and nice and high up plus serves Westfield shopping centre so they’d never close it!

What effect does it have on the local population to have so many londoners buying up property?

It depends, on one hand it's probably similar to what's happened to Londoners on the other hand what about if the Londoner has moved because they couldn't afford a property or a bigger one? plus plenty of those Londoners are temporary ones who always plan to go nearer family.

Sorry do you really want lots of Londoners with huge housing equity of 600k+ to buy houses in your region?

The majority of younger Londoners are going to have nothing like 600k of equity in their property.

I doubt they’d close the jubilee, Bakerloo possibly, H and C/circle more likely. Boris left tfl with huge debts and Khan was on his way to paying those off when the pandemic hit. The government insisted that full tube services were run during the pandemic despite users falling to somewhere in the region of 10%. They estimated that axing the free travel for a person within the staffs family would make them 40m, but this figure was proved to be nonsense as the vast majority of those entitled to the free travel either don’t use it at all, or only occasionally. Very few of those people would be buying an annual travel card instead so that’s a red herring when it comes to cost saving. Who knows what will happen, but I guarantee if Bailey has won the election then Boris would have been throwing funding his way to keep things running.

I read that in 2020 a record number of FTBs bought outside of the M25, I presume that trend will continue as younger people have higher expectations of remote working.

@hygtt it's the older ones who are more.likely to move..younger ones tend to rent or own flats generally in zone 1-3..My flat isn't even worth 600k but most of my neighbours are not owner occupiers either. People who live further out are more likely to own.

Yes a lot of Londoners do move out but stats always show most move within 50 miles so generally home counties territory . Move to the regionS was always less common..of course this is set to change with WFH but this will accelerate it even more..

@dreamingbohemian

Yeah they already removed free fares for 11-18 year olds, many of whom need public transport to get to school

Tubes were never free for 11-18 year olds.

Pupils qualify for free school, transport in London the same way as all of England.

@onlychildhamster older people have always moved out though. I'm not sure lack of public transport will push more out.

It's definitely a growing trend of FTBs buying outside of London & I assume people who traditionally migrate from other cities to London will stay put.

F.

[quote hygtt]@BananaBlue I think the car park is just outside it, even if it wasn't he finds it easier to drive. [/quote]
Ah I must have misread, I assumed he was going into zone 1 so was puzzled re parking! There’s very very little for 4hrs* inside the zone.

@BananaBlue the car park is owned by the firm & free.

This is not a London-exclusive issue. We live in suburban Glasgow and the service from the local station into the city centre is being halved in frequency in the New Year. (every 15 minutes to every 30).

People are just not travelling in the same way as they were pre-pandemic.

@Flapjacker48

I read in the paper that bus fares could go up to £2.50

What are they now? That seems fairly normal to me.

As for withdrawing who travels for free, that would actually cost money, when the government made bus transport free for over 60s and disabled people they had to pay the bus companies an amount to cover the revenue lost, so it would mean taking money from pensioners instead of the government.

They already get far more public money per head of population than any other part of the country. It's blackmail not bargaining. Local tax is the wag to go - London council tax is far lower than the rest of the country, surcharge on band h properties is fairest

I agree @Boohooyouho - jubilee is the only line that connects with all others, I doubt it will go.

And yes, London’s punishment for not voting Bailey.

They did uncircle the circle a few years back so maybe scrapping a line will mean an adjustment like that?

I’m dreading a return to the 2000s where services were constantly disrupted esp on Monday mornings.

The tube is much cleaner and efficient than back then.

They could means test free travel for over 60s match it with those who get free TV license or similar. The whole country has an ageing population even in London I think the average is 37. I doubt it will exist when I'm 60 tbh.