French Man has fingers removed to resemble "alien."

[Mochudubh]

Not sure if this is the right place to post this but it popped up on my news feed and I initially thought it would make a lighthearted "Oh look, a man identifying as an alien now" post.

Reading the article it's absolutely horrific. This poor man needs help, not people indulging his delusions. The surgeons involved need struck off, whatever country they're in.

TW - images are disturbing.
www.news.com.au/lifestyle/beauty/cosmetic-surgery/worlds-most-modified-man-chops-off-two-fingers-in-bid-to-become-black-alien/news-story/d84bf65c5d50d598d2bfa7b6d0e76d23.

I'm almost as shocked the paper has this under "Beauty, Cosmetic Surgery"

@Whatwouldscullydo

I used to be of the mindset that what ever a fully informed consenting adult decided to do to their body was up to them. I have changed my mind in extreme cases like this and think when something is of no benefit or based on completely unrealistic expectations then maybe just maybe someone along the line should step in if the subject doesn't appear to have a grasp of reality. Benefits should outweigh harm.

If you are chopping off fingers and moses then what is the benefit ? Its all harm.

Sometimes people need saving from themselves.

He was such a nice looking man befire. And yes I am.fully aware of the fact he doesn't owe me or anyone else anything and he shouldn't ever decide not to do things because some stranger on the knternet will no longer like how he looks but the infection risks alone warrant a no surely?

Yes, agree. Doctors have a responsibility to do no harm.

How on earth can he afford all the tattoos and surgeries? working on his transformation is Is like a full time job in itself....How does he manage to hold on to a full time role to pay for everything?

I know a man with a similar claw hand of just two fingers. The others, along with his left leg, left hand, one eye and most of his skin were blown off after stepping on an IED in Afghanistan. This "alien" makes a mockery of the suffering of others.

Whoever agreed to operate on this extremely sick individual should be struck off.
Isn't "First, do no harm" still part of the Hippocratic Oath?

@ArabellaScott

"
Whatwouldscullydo
I used to be of the mindset that what ever a fully informed consenting adult decided to do to their body was up to them. I have changed my mind in extreme cases like this and think when something is of no benefit or based on completely unrealistic expectations then maybe just maybe someone along the line should step in if the subject doesn't appear to have a grasp of reality. Benefits should outweigh harm.

If you are chopping off fingers and moses then what is the benefit ? Its all harm.

Sometimes people need saving from themselves.

He was such a nice looking man befire. And yes I am.fully aware of the fact he doesn't owe me or anyone else anything and he shouldn't ever decide not to do things because some stranger on the knternet will no longer like how he looks but the infection risks alone warrant a no surely?

Yes, agree. Doctors have a responsibility to do no harm."

so by this argument no cosmetic surgery at all? no nose jobs, boob jobs, skin tucks, lipo? no botox or collagen?

because all of it carries a risk of infection, all of it could be adjudged to be driven by unrealistic expectations. Extreme, yes, would I do it? hell no, I can't even look at the images.....but is someone being more unrealistic because they want to look like what they think an alien looks like than someone who has cosmetic surgery because they want to look like a favourite celeb?

because they want to look like what they think an alien looks like than someone who has cosmetic surgery because they want to look like a favourite celeb?
I tend to think there are mental health issues involved in both scenarios, to a slightly different degree.

I follow this guy on Instagram and from his posts it is very, very clear that he has a severe case of body dysmorphia.

He has a version of himself in his head and he is absolutely determined to see it through. Currently he is 34% done so lord knows what else he plans on getting done. At last check he was extensively tattooed, has many implants and piercings, he's removed his ears, his nose, parts of his lips, had his teeth filed into points, his tongue split and tattooed green, his eyes tattooed black and now he's had his fingers amputated.

I'm actually quite worried about how far he will go and what it will mean for him. As far as I can see he seems to make at least some of his money through social media and I think that may be what's spurring him on.

I very much doubt that any actual 'doctors' are involved in any of his 'surgeries' I suspect they are being done by 'experienced' body modifiers, he shares extensively about his work and it's not hospitals that these things are being done in.

Poor man. To want to mutilate yourself to that level you must have some serious difficulties.

I saw a documentary a fair few years ago now about a man who wanted to be a tiger/lion (can’t remember which) and I remember thinking how can they do this to him, surely that should flag up that you have some sort of mental disorder.

He had had his whole face tatoooed, his lips cut open to resemble the way cat’s mouths sort of go up towards the nose (if that makes sense) his teeth filed away. He also had some sort of new experimental thing with implantations to give him ‘whiskers.’ It was just horrible and I felt so sorry for him.

@dementedma

I know a man with a similar claw hand of just two fingers. The others, along with his left leg, left hand, one eye and most of his skin were blown off after stepping on an IED in Afghanistan. This "alien" makes a mockery of the suffering of others.

He isn't making a mockery of anyone's suffering

Many people have body modifications of all types, they shouldn't have to stop persuing looking how they want because others have suffered. It's down to individual choice, or we would all have to adjust our behaviour because someone suffered somewhere in the world.

It might not be the choice most of us would make for ourselves but him doing what he wants has no bearing on the suffering of someone else.

I very much doubt that any actual 'doctors' are involved in any of his 'surgeries' I suspect they are being done by 'experienced' body modifiers, he shares extensively about his work and it's not hospitals that these things are being done in.
Jesus...

Just looked it up and the man’s name was Dennis Avner/Stalking Tiger and he’s passed away now.

so by this argument no cosmetic surgery at all? no nose jobs, boob jobs, skin tucks, lipo? no botox or collagen?

No, this is about looking at context, comorbidities, and an overall weighing up of what is in the patient's best interests. Having fingers amputated & other dangerous surgeries is not comparable to botox or relatively safe & minor cosmetic surgeries, not that I think the latter are particularly a good idea, on the whole.

Well given u couldn't look like hkir fa kurite celeb in just one surgery which already indicates a desire for more based on what's probably impossible, I mean look at the human Ken doll, then yeah I'd say it was probably unrealistic and should raise questions.

I mean I'd love to look like Melanie chandra she's beautiful but no amount if surgery could ever make that happen so yeah I'd probably say there was potential for an unhealthy obsession

It might not be the choice most of us would make for ourselves but him doing what he wants has no bearing on the suffering of someone else.

Actually, I think his appearance could be frightening and upsetting for many people.

@GreyhoundG1rl

I very much doubt that any actual 'doctors' are involved in any of his 'surgeries' I suspect they are being done by 'experienced' body modifiers, he shares extensively about his work and it's not hospitals that these things are being done in. Jesus...

Indeed. As you can see, this was posted a few days ago and is clearly someone's home or studio. Very, very worrying. He lives in France I think and travels to get the modifications done as they are understandably illegal in most places. There is no way he could get this done in France or Spain. Hence he had to go to Mexico.

It might not be the choice most of us would make for ourselves but him doing what he wants has no bearing on the suffering of someone else.

Cutting yourself or burning yourself won’t cause suffering to someone else. However, we’re still aware this is unhealthy and comes from a place of unhappiness and problematic mental health, so we still try to stop someone who is doing this because we recognise it as a problem.

A grown up man who believes he is an alien/wants to be an alien and chops his fingers off is not in a good state of mental health and likely needs help.

@ArabellaScott

It might not be the choice most of us would make for ourselves but him doing what he wants has no bearing on the suffering of someone else.

Actually, I think his appearance could be frightening and upsetting for many people.

That's up to them to manage. People with body modifications shouldn't have to stay indoors in case they frighten someone while they are just going about their lives

An alien? What does he do for a living that surgery has to be costly. I would’ve thought those surgeries are going to result in serious disabilities at some point, especially as he ages. He’s a very sick man.

[quote MissMinutes24]Why on earth was my comment deleted?

Anyway I'll re-post the link. Presumably a link from one of America's most venerable publications isn't against the rules.

I'd suggest you read this OP [[https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2000/12/a-new-way-to-be-mad/304671/]][/quote]
very interesting article, thank you

Whoever agreed to operate on this extremely sick individual should be struck off. Isn't "First, do no harm" still part of the Hippocratic Oath?

Like I said earlier, none of this has been done in the UK. And if a patient has capacity, it can be done. Plus doctors haven't 'signed' the Hippocratic Oath in a long time. It's not compulsory although some medical schools have it at graduation ceremonies.

Many people have body modifications of all types, they shouldn't have to stop persuing looking how they want because others have suffered. It's down to individual choice, or we would all have to adjust our behaviour because someone suffered somewhere in the world

He is almost certainly making these choices because he is mentally ill. The surgery does not help him; it makes him worse. Operating on him is like agreeing to starve an anorexic, or handing a razor to someone considering suicide: it is being complicit with his self-harm.

@dementedma

I know a man with a similar claw hand of just two fingers. The others, along with his left leg, left hand, one eye and most of his skin were blown off after stepping on an IED in Afghanistan. This "alien" makes a mockery of the suffering of others.

That’s how I feel about what this man has deliberately done to himself.

I don’t think of it as being self harm, I believe it’s a form of arrogance where he looks down on ordinarily people and thinks he is better than them.

Normal people are inferior to him so by him making himself different he believes he is superior.

It’s funny how these types will spend thousands on changing their outward appearance but don’t do anything to expand their mind or improve their education and knowledge and are devoid of possessing an interesting personality.

@Kanaloa

It might not be the choice most of us would make for ourselves but him doing what he wants has no bearing on the suffering of someone else.

Cutting yourself or burning yourself won’t cause suffering to someone else. However, we’re still aware this is unhealthy and comes from a place of unhappiness and problematic mental health, so we still try to stop someone who is doing this because we recognise it as a problem.

A grown up man who believes he is an alien/wants to be an alien and chops his fingers off is not in a good state of mental health and likely needs help.

I was replying to the person saying that his quest to look like he wishes makes a mockery of others who are suffering, which is wrong.

None of us know what mental health help he has, what checks or processes he has been through at all.

Lots of people want to look different, he is, clearly, very extreme, but lots of people feel that way about many surgeries, tattoos, ear stretches etc.

Its his body at the end of the day, he will have people around him who know him a lot better than we do from a bit of social media, they are better placed to say if he needs help or not.

The photo of him wearing non-alien-like slacks, polo shirt and flat cap. That's not alien-wear, as far as I know. You'd think that someone with body dysmorphia would start with all the easy stuff first, like clothes. Is it dysmorphia? Is it some other extremity unrelated to thinking his body isn't how he sees it in his head and he wants to make reality and his mind's eye correspond?

I don't know, something (beyond the obvious) isn't right about this. The Instagram followers wave a red flag for me. Is it plain old-attention seeking by someone who has an obsession with aliens?

There are plenty of body modification 'artists' as they call themselves, they're not practising as doctors so the oaths and ethical issues don't pop up. It's how people get their tongues split and have horns etc inserted into their faces. It's all really closely guarded and they don't advertise, you have to be part of the community who are into that sort of thing to find out who they are.
He is clearly unwell and dysmorphic but how is it different really to someone like Katie Price, or Pete Burns who have surgery after surgery to improve themselves when there was nothing wrong in the first place? The only difference is their end goal was socially acceptable rather than intentionally shocking.