Crossing the channel in boats

[MarshaBradyo]

Listening to radio re terrible situation on the water but also in camps in France

It all sounds very hard

What would you like to see happen?

Ultimately it boils down to the fact that there are many countries in the world with unstable regimes, at war and/or with horrendous poverty and human rights abuses. On an individual level it's incredibly sad and completely understandable why people are on the move. Looking at it at a wider level..the solution to the world's problems cannot simply be to move everyone to Europe. I honestly don't know what anyone can do about it...

@DuncinToffee

Maybe if Johnson and co cared less about headlines and started taking things serious, they could begin to cooperate with EU countries in trying to find solutions. You do not communicate by twitter.

Thing is publishing this on the likes of Twitter all plays into Johnson’s hands with a chunk of the electorate/backers who don’t give a shiney do dah about politics and diplomacy and only care about sticking one on foreigners ..

1. If the invitation had stood then the spin would have been “this is what we told Johnny Foreigner, especially Mr Macron, we were prepared to accept.

1. If the invitation was withdrawn (as it has been ) the spin would be “Johnny Foreigner, especially Mr Macron, has no interest in solving the problem.”

521Jeanie

DuncinToffee
If anyone is interested in the human side of this tragedy, this twitter thread is a good start
twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1463106096336363521?s=21
Thank you. I was just thinking to post that. Excellent journalism.
I'm shocked by some of the inhuman responses on this thread.“

Agree. These are people, families like ours. They want to work, settle, raise their families in peace and security. Many have had their lives in their home countries stolen from them because of the actions of our Governments and others. We owe them.

1. If the invitation had stood then the spin would have been “this is what we told Johnny Foreigner, especially Mr Macron, we were prepared to accept.

I still think you could turn up and Macron say no it’s not what we want

Do you get the impression he is reactive? Just generally cancelling things (thinking of other times too) whereas others might not

From Macron's press conference just now

At the end Macron says the French Interior Minister will be working with other EU countries and ministers to try and solve the problem and then says “We’ll then work with the British if and when they decide to be serious about it.”

It’s like teenage version of politics

Come on people

Yes, and meanwhile more people could die

Fundamentally it's odd that we expect France to take responsibility for keeping refugees out if the UK and to police the coast for OUR benefit.

I have a certain amount of sympathy for the French goverment. What's in it for them?

The French are always on the lookout to be miffed about something.If its not the migrant situation, its the fishing .
They hate the UK, Macron is pathetic.

The letter set out things to be considered didnt it, not demanded ?

@notimagain

Sounds wonderful…but short of using armed force how do you “make every country sign up to take a certain number”..or enforce a policy such as “ everybody having to take their fair share.

The questions was "what would you like to see" not "what do you think is likely or easily achievable", what I think is likely is everyone will be sad/angry/concerned for a week or so, then forget all about it until then next time.

But if there actually was the political will to change things, that's how I'd go about it. It's a global problem, which will require a collaborative approach. It's not beyond the human race agree global policy, we (mostly) managed it to stop whale hunting, nuclear disarmament, CFC's etc. So its really a question of people (collectively and globally) deciding to care as much about our fellow humans dieing in there thousands, as we do about aquatic mammals.

I'd like for refugees to be able to apply for asylum at the nearest consulate or embassy to them where they are safe. I'd like for our country to take our fair share of asylum seekers seeing as we've historically played a fair role in creating them.

I'd like for the narrative to be changed from dehumanising "economic migrants" coming here to sponge benefits and actually reflect reality. These are people. People who are struggling to survive in the country of their birth. People who have human rights. Look at the camps in Calais. Why wouldn't you try desperately to get yourself, loved ones, child to a place of safety rather than living in a leaking tent with no sanitary provision in a field.

I despair of it all. I cannot imagine how desperate you would have to be to risk your child's life in an overcrowded dinghy to cross the busiest shipping lane in the world on a winter's night. It's absolutely heartbreaking.

Ultimately it boils down to the fact that there are many countries in the world with unstable regimes, at war and/or with horrendous poverty and human rights abuses.

And who caused this state of affairs?

@LiterallyKnowsBest

Ultimately it boils down to the fact that there are many countries in the world with unstable regimes, at war and/or with horrendous poverty and human rights abuses.

And who caused this state of affairs?

How much can you put to atrocities under religious rule?

Afghanistan was helped for decades but the current situation terrible now due to what has replaced it

What would you do to help them with Taliban in power?

@saraclara

Fundamentally it's odd that we expect France to take responsibility for keeping refugees out if the UK and to police the coast for OUR benefit.

I have a certain amount of sympathy for the French goverment. What's in it for them?

Yes but it's very reactive for us to just save boats crossing the Channel, yet our jurisdiction to try and halt the smugglers on French soil is limited- hence why we have paid £££ and offered to provide boots on the ground. Surely its about protecting human life rather than it being for our benefit, and also what do you suggest we should do? A) let boats of predominantly men come over unchecked which will affect the numbers we take in via proper channels which will be women and children too; or stop them all and push them back out to sea? What really needs to happen is people smugglers need to be stopped, revisit whether the country can do more to make official channels of getting over here better and fairer, and work together remembering these are human beings and it should be in all our interests to protect.

@thereisonlyoneofme

The French are always on the lookout to be miffed about something.If its not the migrant situation, its the fishing . They hate the UK, Macron is pathetic.

The letter set out things to be considered didnt it, not demanded ?

The underlying point as stated by Mr Macron in a presser in I think Rome a few minutes ago, is not what is in the letter, - considerations demands or otherwise, it’s that it was published at all well before those involved had even sat down.

Basically no, “they” don’t hate the UK…to paraphrase what Mr Macron said earlier nobody can take seriously/go into meetings with parties who want to perform diplomacy by way of Twitter or other social media before discussion has even started.

You still turn up. Or ask the other side to.

You can’t do diplomacy if one side isn’t there.

It is a mistake by Macron imo

And French speaker on radio said same - professor of diplomatic relations or along those lines iirc

I'd like to see more done to work with the countries the migrants originated from to educate them on the reality of what's happening. I remember reading a very scary article which included the story of a refugee from Somalia. The people smugglers he used had an office and ran it like a legitimate business. He gave his entire life savings and was told he'd need to pay tens of thousands more when he got to the U.K. but it would be easy because he'll get a great paying job and would even have enough to send money to support his family too. He ended up being held as a slave in Sudan, tortured and the lives of his family threatened. The luxury transport and visa he thought he had bought didn't exist. After nearly a year trapped in Sudan he was transported to France in trucks and shipping containers. When he climbed into the tiny overfilled dinghy he still thought that as long as he could get to England he could get a job to pay the smugglers off and keep his family at home safe. He didn't know how to swim but was so desperate he couldn't think of any other way out of the situation. He hadn't spoken to his family since he left and didn't even know if they were still alive at the time. He just knew that when he left them they had nothing and were relying on him to work and send back money.

UK MSM report on Mr Macron’s comments this AM here..

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/nov/26/channel-deaths-priti-patel-disinvited-to-meeting-with-france

I can only reiterate that I’m not sensing hate this side of the Channel but many people (not just politicians) are increasingly puzzled by the way UK gov is choosing to carry out business…

Cancelling is crazy.

I can’t see how anyone can defend it. I’m cancelling an important meeting due to a tweet on SM.

Meanwhile we get further from a solution.

@cloudtree

I think unfortunately whilst the rumours persist that the streets of London are paved with gold, people will always try anything possible to get here. The reality is they would probably be better off staying in numerous other European countries that they reach first.

I don't understand why they want to come here so much, bi- passing other safe European countries to get to the UK. If they were that desperate and fleeing from harm surely just getting to the first safe place would be enough? I thought other countries and France have said they will take refugees in previously. What do they think is here that they can't get in another European country?

I would like their home country to be safe and prosperous for them. But easier said than done. I would like other European countries to take them in and offer refuge.

I don't understand why they want to come here so much

I think some are missold the reality of the UK. For others it may be the language barrier. If they speak English as a second language it might seem easier to work here. My friend works for the Red Cross in Sweden and a lot of the refugees she works with are surprised to learn that most swedes speak fluent English.

@MarshaBradyo

Cancelling is crazy.

I can’t see how anyone can defend it. I’m cancelling an important meeting due to a tweet on SM.

Meanwhile we get further from a solution.

So basically the French and others in the EU have to put up with the commas coming out of Westminster, have to keep giving “Boris” slack, turn the cheek? .…….I suspect decades of people doing that is why Johnson carries on behaving as he does….

Politically and more importantly what the heck is the point in having a meeting with individuals who will tell you one thing over the phone but then put out an open letter/tweet putting a different spin on things?

It is so bad even the usually diplomatic Mr Barnier (right of centre, presidential candidate) is saying:

“This is obviously an additional provocation from Boris Johnson, who is in a state of mind of confrontation on all subjects with the European Union ...

I find this is frankly absolutely inadmissible. What you don’t need is confrontation, it’s to sit down at the table and find solutions.”

Re a Tweet? There was a letter also wasn’t there

It’s obviously top of agenda here so yes it’s being taken seriously

Ignoring it or cancelling is not taking it seriously

And actually much is communicated on Twitter feeds these days, including politics

It’s like a child throwing a strop because the plate the food was on wasn’t the right one

I usually don’t bother getting annoyed but Macron is very irritating here

Maybe it ys as pp says there’s little benefit to French to find solution - others than deaths in the water.

What does he want to move forward now? It’s an impasse and people die

Macron is a twat with an enormous ego

Johnson is a twat and an imbecile.

Both are as culpable as each other.

In the meantime people are dying.