Crossing the channel in boats

[MarshaBradyo]

Listening to radio re terrible situation on the water but also in camps in France

It all sounds very hard

What would you like to see happen?

The letter to Macron was not sent directly to Macron, it was tweeted out publically, a letter with a list of demands, just in time for the British press going to print.

Not much point in Patel going to the meeting if her boss has already made public exactly what the UK wants. The meeting is still going ahead with the other countries with channel sea borders.

The French are spending 120 million a year keeping people from crossing the channel to the UK. The UK have so far given 20 million of the 60 million they keep banging on about, and that had to be shook out of them. I'm not a fan at all of French policy and actions on refugees and migrants but Johnson is taking the piss and playing to his own gallery. As usual.

Solutions need to be found, but it doesn't sound like the UK is serious about working bilaterally to find them. And part of the solution is the UK opening up more ways for safe passage, particularly around family reunifications.

Yep big ego reactive politics

Stupid.

Start communication and keep going.

The countries with channel sea borders might all agree to stop these dangerous sea crossings by allowing asylum seekers access to safe routes. Allow them access to the ferries. Let the UK police its own borders once they get there.

It’s a tweet and a letter, both of which have cause the stir…

And I’m struggling to see HTF this can be turned into being the fault of the French or Mr Macron….

TBF it have been the easiest thing in the world for the Johnson government to STFU, and for Ms Patel to attend and have a dialogue with EU politicians as was the plan invited…but oh no, far too difficult.

As it is we have the usual tedious s storm in the wake of, as Mr Barnier hints, probably deliberately provocative Downing Street Comms.

Maybe it will all work out for the best - the grown ups still get to discuss this over the weekend …

Why would stamping your feet over this make you adult like?

It doesn’t

It makes you petulant and reactive.

Is his popularity waning in France? I can’t think what would irritate me more than that kind of stunt. This is a Channel issue and obviously U.K. is relevant.

The state of these people. Stop reacting and talk.

The tragedies continue, and prettiness on the part of politicians won't help.
To partly answer some pp questions - I teach in a very diverse school, and had a good discussion with my tutor group about this last week. Students from Iraq, Somalia, Iran and Morocco all said the same thing: their families thought the UK was more inclusive and tolerant. They think Muslims are treated better here than in France, you get more support in schools and the healthcare is better (disclaimer - just repeating the views of the students).

@MarshaBradyo

Cancelling is crazy.

I can’t see how anyone can defend it. I’m cancelling an important meeting due to a tweet on SM.

Meanwhile we get further from a solution.

It's all so petty, isn't it?

@MarshaBradyo

Yep big ego reactive politics

Stupid.

Start communication and keep going.

This, absolutely

Start communication and keep going

Belive it or not that is what most parties of this have been trying to do, but as in any negotiation you have to have some trust in the people you are dealing with.

@notimagain

Start communication and keep going

Belive it or not that is what most parties of this have been trying to do, but as in any negotiation you have to have some trust in the people you are dealing with.

I don’t buy it.

What’s so bad about public knowing what is being suggested

How can this be re opened as a conversation? You’re pretty much at a dead end which is ridiculous over a tweet.

Especially as people are dying

Bonkers

@MarshaBradyo

Why would stamping your feet over this make you adult like?

It doesn’t

It makes you petulant and reactive.

Is his popularity waning in France? I can’t think what would irritate me more than that kind of stunt. This is a Channel issue and obviously U.K. is relevant.

The state of these people. Stop reacting and talk.

At the presser Mr Macron just looked a bit hacked off, pretty much shrugged his shoulders and said we can’t do business with people who behave like this ….I’m inclined to agree which as a Brit living in France is a bit awkward and embarrassing…

As for Mr Macron’s popularity..he’s bouncing along, not great, not to bad…

But on that topic it’s interesting how rarely people ask if anything “Boris” does is motivated by worries about his popularity and the right wing (ERG/GB News/Mr Farrage) ..let’s face it anything portrayed as a “give” on the migrant front is going to see him slaughtered in most of the UK MSM, so similar problems both sides of the Channel.

Of course people are motivated by what appeals and migration is a difficult topic. But at least turn up and don’t shut doors.

But if Macron just shrugged then he couldn’t annoy me more. No problem there… nothing to see but people in the sea

I don’t know how people can take him what a noob.

@MarshaBradyo

Of course people are motivated by what appeals and migration is a difficult topic. But at least turn up and don’t shut doors.

But if Macron just shrugged then he couldn’t annoy me more. No problem there… nothing to see but people in the sea

I don’t know how people can take him what a noob.

Not sure what a noob is? Somebody who dresses smartly, can articulate clearly, speak without rambling, has his/her haircut, tries to behave in a manner befitting of the office?

FWIWchere is his response to the issue at the presser this morning…no sign of foot stamping.

@FatCatThinCat

The countries with channel sea borders might all agree to stop these dangerous sea crossings by allowing asylum seekers access to safe routes. Allow them access to the ferries. Let the UK police its own borders once they get there.

This would be a massive vote loser though.

It would be the equivalent of political suicide and Johnson knows this

Noob - someone who shuts the door on talks because he doesn’t like the platform communication was on.

A bit like a teenager blocking someone online because it was the wrong format.

And doing it whilst people are dying,.. and then shrugging about it.

Doesn’t it bother you? You seem very ok with it.

This would be a massive vote loser though.

It would be the equivalent of political suicide and Johnson knows this

Yes, hence the tweeting of his letter.

Isn't the root of the problem people preferring the UK over other countries? Why is that, do you think? What can they get in the UK that they can't in the EU? In my opinion, it has a lot to do with the fact that there are no ID cards required and that it's therefore much easier in the UK to claim to be someone you're not (and after you've done that for a while get a job and documents).

@Frymetothemoon

Isn't the root of the problem people preferring the UK over other countries? Why is that, do you think? What can they get in the UK that they can't in the EU? In my opinion, it has a lot to do with the fact that there are no ID cards required and that it's therefore much easier in the UK to claim to be someone you're not (and after you've done that for a while get a job and documents).

Your question/point is not meaningful. As has been pointed out on here already, a tiny percentage of refugees to Europe come to the UK. But of those who do (and I think this has been said too), many, often for reasons of our colonialist history, will have at least some English-language skills, and/or family or contacts here. I'm not sure how many refugees claim to be someone they're not and get a job and documents through doing so. I'd be interested to see any evidence you have on this.

I'm just trying to figure out why the UK, when they are already in France. What makes the UK so much more attractive?

@Maireas

The tragedies continue, and prettiness on the part of politicians won't help. To partly answer some pp questions - I teach in a very diverse school, and had a good discussion with my tutor group about this last week. Students from Iraq, Somalia, Iran and Morocco all said the same thing: their families thought the UK was more inclusive and tolerant. They think Muslims are treated better here than in France, you get more support in schools and the healthcare is better (disclaimer - just repeating the views of the students).

that is so interesting.

It was, @Samcro, and very illuminating about their perception of the inclusion in schools, and the experience of being Muslims.
By the way, it should read pettiness, not prettiness!

@Frymetothemoon

I'm just trying to figure out why the UK, when they are already in France. What makes the UK so much more attractive?

From the Lewis Goodall twitter thread I linked yesterday

I asked them why don’t apply for asylum in France. A few reasons given- either: a) no French but do speak English b) historic ties to the UK c) family in UK d) a belief that France would not treat them humanely, a belief they think vindicated by their experiences here.

Notable that many in the camps come from countries-Iraq, Kurdistan, Afghanistan- with either historic or recent connections to the UK. Those with French connections (eg West Africa) tend to stay in France. It’s about esteem (many hold UK in high regard), language and family.

We need a world solution as we will do with climate change as well - that will increase migrants too, so we may as well start finding a real solution.

The pandemic hasn't helped as governments are focused more on that. But someone needs to step up and get this moving.

And we need to stop creating more with our own actions too.

I think we need to look at why the UK is seen as such an attractive option. France is a safe country as are other European countries.

@MarshaBradyo

Noob - someone who shuts the door on talks because he doesn’t like the platform communication was on.

A bit like a teenager blocking someone online because it was the wrong format.

And doing it whilst people are dying,.. and then shrugging about it.

Doesn’t it bother you? You seem very ok with it.

I suspect we’re using up bandwidth better used on the core issue so a final comment for me for now but it does seem Mr Macron raises your hackles, that I guess is a personal thing….

As to what happened overnight I don’t think anybody here would be happy with making an agreement with a partner over the phone to discuss details on something fairly sensitive (you name it - child care, divorce, finances) face to face in a few days and then find the agenda/topics for discussion aired immediately on Facebook/Twitter.. That’s where the allegation of the UK not being serious come into this.

I also think some UK politicians have now now got a reputation for not taking meetings, discussions or agreements involving the EU/Europe France seriously.

Unfortunately there might be a body of opinion that having the UK involved in negotiations that involve the wider European community might actually be disruptive or counterproductive.

The fact that some UK’s politicians are regarded in that way, and that that behavior may delay a resolution to this crisis really does bother me greatly and no, I’m not OK with it…