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Original poster

Struggling to understand Dniece and DD 's feelings against supporting Movember

157 replies

thecatmother · 06/11/2021 13:07

Dniece is visiting this weekend and was telling us last night that herself and a number of female colleagues had been against celebrating Movember at their office due to the recent events (metoo, kidnapping, murders). My DD thinks the same, basically no need to support or celebrate any male related causes due to what is happening in the world.
I am so saddened by their extreme outlook. They both have very warm and loving relationships with their fathers and grandfathers , and they both admit that one day they want to get married.
My explanation that the world was very similar when I was their age , if not worse (the 90s), did cause a bit of a heated discussion.
I am not getting this hostility, especially from 2 rather privileged young women: they have good jobs, had good education, have supportive families, big groups of friends...things that a lot of people do not have. I did get a little cross with them, and suggested instead of being so unwavering in their opinions to go and volunteer for a day in a hospice and meet the people who would benefit from them supporting Movember.
Am I too old, too harsh? Probably both! Apologies for the rant.

OP posts:
ineedsun · 07/11/2021 06:40

@saraclara

I give up. No wonder MumsNet has a reputation for man-hating. There are some quite insane posts here. And the fact that men doing their own fund and awareness-raising is seen as something that it's perfectly reasonable for women and girls to complain about, (and in fact is the majority view) is deeply depressing.

It is actually possible to be a feminist, to rail against male violence, to campaign for women's rights, and yet still be able to accept a charitable event run by men for men's health issues. But you wouldn't know it here.

I totally agree with everything you say.

There was a thread on here a few weeks ago about a trainer who didn’t describe herself as a feminist and loads of people were confused about why that would be. It’s shite like this, the fact that seemingly in order to be ‘feminist enough’ you have to find an angle in everything to be furious with men about.

So people grow a beard to grow money, it also raises awareness for men’s cancer charities. Have ice thrown over you to raise money and awareness of MND, requires arguably less effort but no one is moaning about that? There are loads of others you could draw parallels with too.

BoredZelda · 07/11/2021 10:42

And the fact that men doing their own fund and awareness-raising is seen as something that it's perfectly reasonable for women and girls to complain about, (and in fact is the majority view) is deeply depressing.

What is depressing is, these women are being told they are wrong for having an opinion. It is perfectly reasonable for women who find it problematic to them to complain about it and not support it if they find it objectionable. The OP doesn’t have to understand it, or agree with it and that is fine to. But to blast them for not accepting their privilege and calling them stupid and all the other awful things she has said about her own daughter is what is really depressing. And she has completely ignored the role she must have played in her daughter’s views too.

saraclara · 07/11/2021 10:48

@BoredZelda

And the fact that men doing their own fund and awareness-raising is seen as something that it's perfectly reasonable for women and girls to complain about, (and in fact is the majority view) is deeply depressing.

What is depressing is, these women are being told they are wrong for having an opinion. It is perfectly reasonable for women who find it problematic to them to complain about it and not support it if they find it objectionable. The OP doesn’t have to understand it, or agree with it and that is fine to. But to blast them for not accepting their privilege and calling them stupid and all the other awful things she has said about her own daughter is what is really depressing. And she has completely ignored the role she must have played in her daughter’s views too.

So your relative has views that are unreasonable, but you're not allowed to question or challenge them? That's an unusual view on mumsnet.
makelovenotpetrol · 07/11/2021 10:50

This is such a non issue.

AccidentallyOnPurpose · 07/11/2021 10:59

So your relative has views that are unreasonable, but you're not allowed to question or challenge them? That's an unusual view on mumsnet.

What exactly is unreasonable about their views?

ineedsun · 07/11/2021 11:13

@AccidentallyOnPurpose

So your relative has views that are unreasonable, but you're not allowed to question or challenge them? That's an unusual view on mumsnet.

What exactly is unreasonable about their views?

“Dniece is visiting this weekend and was telling us last night that herself and a number of female colleagues had been against celebrating Movember at their office due to the recent events (metoo, kidnapping, murders). My DD thinks the same, basically no need to support or celebrate any male related causes due to what is happening in the world.”

From the OP

Tailendofsummer · 07/11/2021 11:36

Saying you don't care if some men die or get ill from prostate cancer because there are far too many men who abuse or kill women, seems unreasonable to me. If it was the case that only men who abuse women die from prostate cancer, they might have a point.
Men dying from cancer also affects the women they are married to and their children massively.

BoredZelda · 07/11/2021 12:31

So your relative has views that are unreasonable, but you're not allowed to question or challenge them? That's an unusual view on mumsnet.

I’d discuss it and even debate it with them. I wouldn’t call them stupid, or claim they were denying their privilege, or think I was better than them or that they were wrong to hold that view, or judge them. They can have whatever opinions they like on it. And I certainly wouldn’t do it if it were my daughter then post on MN to tell everyone how awful my daughter was.

BoredZelda · 07/11/2021 12:33

From the OP

That still doesn’t explain “unreasonable”

Men dying from cancer also affects the women they are married to and their children massively.

Which is true of every cause that people decide they don’t want to support. When was the last time you gave to a special care baby charity, or a disability sports one? People are allowed to choose not to support a charity and have their own reasons for doing so.

Tailendofsummer · 07/11/2021 12:39

Oh come on, boredzelda, they didn't simply say we don't fancy contributing to that particular charity, they said they didn't want to based on current events surrounding male behaviour towards women, and were against having this as the current office charity.

BoredZelda · 07/11/2021 12:42

Have ice thrown over you to raise money and awareness of MND, requires arguably less effort but no one is moaning about that?

Plenty of people complained about it. The most high profile being Matt Damon, co founder of water.org, who felt that people wasting perfectly clean water to “raise awareness” for ALS was crazy. So he did his own challenge.

BoredZelda · 07/11/2021 12:43

Oh come on, boredzelda, they didn't simply say we don't fancy contributing to that particular charity, they said they didn't want to based on current events surrounding male behaviour towards women, and were against having this as the current office charity.

Which was their own reasoning for not supporting it. You may not agree and that’s up to you. But think about why you might choose not to support a charity and plenty of people will disagree with your reasoning.

ZingDramaQueenOfSheeba · 07/11/2021 12:43

are they thick?

Movember is not about celebrating males ffs.
it's for cancer awareness.
what's that got to do with kindnappings and rape?

their ramblings make it sounds like they are in a cult or at least fond of tin foil hats.

StucklnAMuumuuCantGetOutOflt · 07/11/2021 12:52

My children's father does Movember each year as some of the donations go towards men's mental health and suicide is still a huge issue - from the 5,224 deaths in England and Wales last year, 75.1% were men - 3,925 men killed themselves.

saraclara · 07/11/2021 12:57

@BoredZelda

Oh come on, boredzelda, they didn't simply say we don't fancy contributing to that particular charity, they said they didn't want to based on current events surrounding male behaviour towards women, and were against having this as the current office charity.

Which was their own reasoning for not supporting it. You may not agree and that’s up to you. But think about why you might choose not to support a charity and plenty of people will disagree with your reasoning.

Again, they didn't say that they didn't want to donate. They're saying that they resent the event happening at all. Apparently men don't deserve an awareness and fund raising project, as a few of them are rapists or murderers.

No-one is criticising them for not putting money in. They're criticising them for their illogical thinking and their total dismissal of men's cancers as worthy of consideration.

If this was young men moaning about a breast cancer event, you'd be up in arms about it, and absolutely judging them.

LaBellina · 07/11/2021 12:59

I can understand their POV.
I can understand your POV as well.

It’s my assumption that it’s probably a way for them to deal with what has been in the news recently and a safe way to take their anger about this out on men. Perhaps if you want them to see your point of view, show some interest in where theirs is coming from. It might lead to an interesting conversation where you could all learn from.

saraclara · 07/11/2021 13:09

@LaBellina maybe you can explain their point of view to me.

Some men in the office have decided to take part in Movember. The office is encouraging it, just as they encourage other events, presumably including those about awareness of breast and cervical cancers.

What exactly is the rational thinking behind these going willen saying that the office should not allow this to go ahead? And what is the difference between those young women refusing to acknowledge the good in the event, and young men moaning about the office allowing near Breast cancer week.activities?

saraclara · 07/11/2021 13:11

a safe way to take their anger about this out on men

Oh yes. And why should they take out their anger or on these men? Presumably they are neither rapists nor murderers.

MissyB1 · 07/11/2021 13:22

@ZingDramaQueenOfSheeba

are they thick?

Movember is not about celebrating males ffs.
it's for cancer awareness.
what's that got to do with kindnappings and rape?

their ramblings make it sounds like they are in a cult or at least fond of tin foil hats.

Yes. This.
LaBellina · 07/11/2021 13:23

Wow calm down @saraclara. I don’t owe you any explanation and won’t be giving you any because you’re trying to twist my words whilst I am just trying to encourage the OP to talk with these young women about what seems to be a way to deal with anxiety about men.

AccidentallyOnPurpose · 07/11/2021 13:24

@saraclara

From OP

They are making a point about not donating and I suppose loudly ignoring the Movember.

The only thing they're doing in the office is not donating . OP is making assumptions about their other possible actions. Loudly ignoring?

At home, they should be allowed to expand on their reasons and express their point of view, their anger ,their pain.

Everyone is allowed to support or not whatever charity they want for whatever reason. They don't even need to have a reason. The only thing they're guilty of is expressing those reasons in front of their mother/aunt who not only disagrees but seems to take it all very personally.

Tailendofsummer · 07/11/2021 13:39

No, it says her (the niece) and a number of female colleagues have been against celebrating (sic) Movember in their office. That's not the same as simply choosing not to donate.

Pumperthepumper · 07/11/2021 13:44

@Tailendofsummer

No, it says her (the niece) and a number of female colleagues have been against celebrating (sic) Movember in their office. That's not the same as simply choosing not to donate.
But it also says they don’t acknowledge any other charities male or otherwise, all the other marked days are celebrations, or awareness days.

And we know they’re not anti-men because they don’t have a problem with Father’s Day.

saraclara · 07/11/2021 13:45

herself and a number of female colleagues had been against celebrating Movember at their office due to the recent events (metoo, kidnapping, murders). My DD thinks the same, basically no need to support or celebrate any male related causes due to what is happening in the world.

Again, will someone please tell me what's rational about this stand?

A few men are rapists and murderers. So these young women have decided that no men should expect them to tolerate a programme which raises awareness of men's cancers. And they are actively being negative about it in the office.

It makes no logical sense to me. It really doesn't.

saraclara · 07/11/2021 13:48

And we know they’re not anti-men because they don’t have a problem with Father’s Day.

We've been here already. They don't have a problem with fathers day as they see it directly about their own fathers.

Movember is about men in general, and presumably they have no men that they live who have prostate or testicular cancer. So it's just an 'all men' thing to them.

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