Struggling to understand Dniece and DD 's feelings against supporting Movember

[thecatmother]

Dniece is visiting this weekend and was telling us last night that herself and a number of female colleagues had been against celebrating Movember at their office due to the recent events (metoo, kidnapping, murders). My DD thinks the same, basically no need to support or celebrate any male related causes due to what is happening in the world.
I am so saddened by their extreme outlook. They both have very warm and loving relationships with their fathers and grandfathers , and they both admit that one day they want to get married.
My explanation that the world was very similar when I was their age , if not worse (the 90s), did cause a bit of a heated discussion.
I am not getting this hostility, especially from 2 rather privileged young women: they have good jobs, had good education, have supportive families, big groups of friends...things that a lot of people do not have. I did get a little cross with them, and suggested instead of being so unwavering in their opinions to go and volunteer for a day in a hospice and meet the people who would benefit from them supporting Movember.
Am I too old, too harsh? Probably both! Apologies for the rant.

If men can't work out where their prostrate is and need a woman to encourage them to get to a doctor, then I frankly don't care. Men today have fuck all excuse for not minding their own health. They don't need women to give a shit. Men as a class certainly do not give many shits about women as a class.

The OP is being U. She wants the women in her life to cater to, and support, men. Why should they?

@speakupattheback

If men can't work out where their prostrate is and need a woman to encourage them to get to a doctor, then I frankly don't care. Men today have fuck all excuse for not minding their own health. They don't need women to give a shit. Men as a class certainly do not give many shits about women as a class.

The OP is being U. She wants the women in her life to cater to, and support, men. Why should they?

I totally agree, @speakupattheback.

@Porridgeislife

I can’t get too worked up about Movember. Prostrate cancer is extremely well researched as a natural consequence of male ageing. Treatments are generally very effective and there’s been many advances recently in robotic surgery.

Comparable female illnesses are many many years behind both in terms of research and years to diagnosis.

Not really. It is well known that while breast cancer affects around the same % of women as prostate cancer affects men, the research funding has always been biased in favour of breast cancer.

And they don’t know what causes prostate cancer so you cannot say it is “a natural consequence of aging”. And even if it were, you seem to be implying that it’s ok to just let men die from it because they have aged...and that’s natural.

@burnoutbabe

Is the issue that movember is clearly a man thing and speaks about men's issues.

Yet equivalent women's cancers must be about people with breasts or cervixes and all inclusive.

Yeah I'd see why this might be an issue

OP why do you keep referring to privilege unecessarily?

Your relatives aren't arguing against an educational charity, or foodbanks. They're arguing against a male disease - which should be compared to women's diseases.

How privileged they are w.r.t wealth and education has nothing to do with it seeing that donations are for research and awareness regarding prostrate cancer which cuts across wealth.The only relevant point is their sex - and they are the oppressed (for want of a better word, I know it's dramatic) gender.

Really don't get your point here

It is well known that while breast cancer affects around the same % of women as prostate cancer affects men, the research funding has always been biased in favour of breast cancer.

That’s a pretty odd interpretation of funding choices - breast cancer affects men, women and children, the mortality rates are much higher among younger people than any other cancer. It’s not because it’s biased towards women.

Here’s a really interesting article on health inequalities:

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/education/2019/dec/18/women-have-been-woefully-neglected-does-medical-science-have-a-gender-problem

Women have to undergo painful invasive smear tests regularly from their 20s, but men won’t do something as small as getting a prostrate check from their 50s and we need to “raise awareness” to encourage them to do it? None of those growing the silly moustaches in my office care even a little bit about men’s mental health. I won’t be supporting it either

There have been decades or "raising awareness" of having smear tests. It's taken that long for the majority of women to have them. When I was younger very few did.

So put that smug attitude away. Women used to be every bit averse to that intimate examination (especially young women) as men have been about prostate examinations.

Do all these people making negative posts not have any men in their lives that they love? I'm not saying that any of you have to donate or do anything about Movember, but why the resentment that it even exists?

@speakupattheback

If men can't work out where their prostrate is and need a woman to encourage them to get to a doctor, then I frankly don't care. Men today have fuck all excuse for not minding their own health. They don't need women to give a shit. Men as a class certainly do not give many shits about women as a class.

The OP is being U. She wants the women in her life to cater to, and support, men. Why should they?

No she isn't. She's not expecting any of those things. She's simply confused that they're so negative and resentful that Movember even exists.

Also when my DD and her friends do Race for Life, their male friends go along and cheer them on. They sponsor them.
So why the 'fuck men, why should I support their health charities?' attitudes on here?

Shit, this is depressing. I really hope none of your partners/brothers/fathers/sons ever need any help and support with men's health problems.

@Pumperthepumper

Really, so you are saying that breast cancer mortality rate is “much higher among young people than any other cancer”. According to world atlas it isn’t even in the top ten.
www.worldatlas.com/articles/cancers-with-the-highest-mortality-rates.html

That’s an article on reproductive health issues alone. Nothing to do with cancer or overall health inequalities.

If we stay focussed on cancer, which is what I was talking about, instead of looking at “whataboutery” of reproductive health, then an additional inequality is that men have a higher mortality rate than women from cancer- 189.5 per 100,000 men and 135.7 per 100,000 women according to the National Institute of Health
www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/understanding/statistics

Do all these people making negative posts not have any men in their lives that they love?

I adore my sons, of course I do.

Every one of us will have men that we know and love.

I, for instance, would feel absolutely safe bumping into one of them on a quiet street at night. If another woman bumped into my massive and scary looking sons at night I imagine she would be terrified, just as I would bumping into a stranger.

The problem is that men have been fucking us over on a systemic level for ages, although we all know individuals who are lovely, that doesn't mean we need to be supporting campaigns especially for men as a whole, when they have the power to change things for us, and very few bother speaking out about it or trying to change anything . They leave rape 'jokes' unchecked, every woman is close to someone who has been raped, but shockingly no men know a rapist... the list goes on. The minute women speak up about our issues all you hear is "men suffer this thing too" or NAMALT, but we are all supposed to give our unquestioning support to male issues? Nah. I totally get it.

I find the prostate campaign just so transphobic. Ive been in hospital this morning and the word men is all over the posters. How is this even allowed?!

[quote PlanDeRaccordement]@Pumperthepumper

Really, so you are saying that breast cancer mortality rate is “much higher among young people than any other cancer”. According to world atlas it isn’t even in the top ten.
www.worldatlas.com/articles/cancers-with-the-highest-mortality-rates.html

That’s an article on reproductive health issues alone. Nothing to do with cancer or overall health inequalities.

If we stay focussed on cancer, which is what I was talking about, instead of looking at “whataboutery” of reproductive health, then an additional inequality is that men have a higher mortality rate than women from cancer- 189.5 per 100,000 men and 135.7 per 100,000 women according to the National Institute of Health
www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/understanding/statistics[/quote]
Here’s another article for you:

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/why-do-some-forms-cancer-receive-more-research-funding-others-9771396.html%3famp

It’s interesting to me that you’re now complaining about whataboutery when all of your posts compare female issues to male ones. Your very first one was murder rates, now cancer funding. Why is that?

@saraclara

Also when my DD and her friends do Race for Life, their male friends go along and cheer them on. They sponsor them. So why the 'fuck men, why should I support their health charities?' attitudes on here?

Shit, this is depressing. I really hope none of your partners/brothers/fathers/sons ever need any help and support with men's health problems.

Race for life involves much more effort than movember. I’m not really sure we can compare the two.

Race for life involves much more effort than movember. I’m not really sure we can compare the two.

They're both ways to raise money for cancer research and awareness. One for women's cancers and one for men's. What's not to compare? It doesn't matter what they do to raise the money. But apparently one meets with MN approval and one doesn't. Because some men rape and a tiny few kill, we shouldn't support a drive to raise funds and awareness for diseases that could affect the men in our life.

@saraclara

Race for life involves much more effort than movember. I’m not really sure we can compare the two.

They're both ways to raise money for cancer research and awareness. One for women's cancers and one for men's. What's not to compare? It doesn't matter what they do to raise the money. But apparently one meets with MN approval and one doesn't. Because some men rape and a tiny few kill, we shouldn't support a drive to raise funds and awareness for diseases that could affect the men in our life.

Because it does matter what they do to raise money. Not doing something (shaving) is the complete opposite of doing something (a 5k).

@FallonCarringtonWannabe

I find the prostate campaign just so transphobic. Ive been in hospital this morning and the word men is all over the posters. How is this even allowed?!

Agree. It should be ‘people with prostates’, surely?

Because it does matter what they do to raise money. Not doing something (shaving) is the complete opposite of doing something (a 5k).

I disagree, but it doesn't matter, because that's not why OP's niece and co are resenting Movember, is it?

@speakupattheback

If men can't work out where their prostrate is and need a woman to encourage them to get to a doctor, then I frankly don't care. Men today have fuck all excuse for not minding their own health. They don't need women to give a shit. Men as a class certainly do not give many shits about women as a class.

The OP is being U. She wants the women in her life to cater to, and support, men. Why should they?

I agree with al of this. Men have all the power.they can sort out their own shit

@saraclara

Also when my DD and her friends do Race for Life, their male friends go along and cheer them on.

That's the race where most women run in their bras, isn't it?

Very selfless of their male friends to make the sacrifice to turn up and watch

[quote BudgeSquare]@saraclara

Also when my DD and her friends do Race for Life, their male friends go along and cheer them on.

That's the race where most women run in their bras, isn't it?

Very selfless of their male friends to make the sacrifice to turn up and watch[/quote]
No, it isn't.

@TractorAndHeadphones

OP why do you keep referring to privilege unecessarily?

Your relatives aren't arguing against an educational charity, or foodbanks. They're arguing against a male disease - which should be compared to women's diseases.

How privileged they are w.r.t wealth and education has nothing to do with it seeing that donations are for research and awareness regarding prostrate cancer which cuts across wealth.The only relevant point is their sex - and they are the oppressed (for want of a better word, I know it's dramatic) gender.

Really don't get your point here

Indeed, they are not arguing against the disease. Their argument was against the gender. They are opposed to allow other people to support the charity and express themselves during this month. And as their parent I am disappointed in their extreme outlook. I do suppose it is me being of a different generation to them.

I don't know what you're thinking of @BudgeSquare, but Race for Life involves women of all ages walking and running 5k, usually in pink tee shirts or fancy dress outfits. And yes, often supported by the men in their life, some of whom volunteer as marshalls etc.

None of this "why should I care, women should sort their own shit out going on there. I've never heard a single man express resentment about it.

But when men sort their own shit out by organising their own awareness fundraiser, it's a different thing altogether, apparently.

@saraclara

Because it does matter what they do to raise money. Not doing something (shaving) is the complete opposite of doing something (a 5k).

I disagree, but it doesn't matter, because that's not why OP's niece and co are resenting Movember, is it?

Well, we don’t know - we do know it’s not because it’s for men because they also celebrate fathers’ day in the office. I guess we’ll wait for the OP to confirm.

@saraclara that's so sad. Those poor men. I really feel for them