Struggling to understand Dniece and DD 's feelings against supporting Movember

[thecatmother]

Dniece is visiting this weekend and was telling us last night that herself and a number of female colleagues had been against celebrating Movember at their office due to the recent events (metoo, kidnapping, murders). My DD thinks the same, basically no need to support or celebrate any male related causes due to what is happening in the world.
I am so saddened by their extreme outlook. They both have very warm and loving relationships with their fathers and grandfathers , and they both admit that one day they want to get married.
My explanation that the world was very similar when I was their age , if not worse (the 90s), did cause a bit of a heated discussion.
I am not getting this hostility, especially from 2 rather privileged young women: they have good jobs, had good education, have supportive families, big groups of friends...things that a lot of people do not have. I did get a little cross with them, and suggested instead of being so unwavering in their opinions to go and volunteer for a day in a hospice and meet the people who would benefit from them supporting Movember.
Am I too old, too harsh? Probably both! Apologies for the rant.

The office cake sale is another great example of shit fundraising - a tenner to buy ingredients and sprinkles to make twelve cupcakes which are then sold for 50p each, genius.

Ordinarily I would agree, but I once organised an office bake sale when I was working on a construction site for a huge global finance company HQ. I baked all weekend and left cakes in each of the kitchens but by lunch time I wasn’t doing much business so I asked the team who put together the refreshments for the meeting rooms if they could put in a some plates of my cakes with the lunches. Unbeknownst to me, one of the meetings was with the CEO and some equally high up people he was doing business with. Apparently it became a huge willy waving contest with each of them pulling out their wallets and trying to outdo each other with their wads of cash. That meeting alone brought in nearly 500 quid. 😆

I was saying that the disease can affect them through our/theirs family members and friends, and inviting them to step away from "male privilege" way of seeing the issue but more of "this disease affects people " way of seeing it.

I guarantee of you list the charities you have supported, I could give you a list of many you haven’t supported which could impact on your family one day.

@BoredZelda

I was saying that the disease can affect them through our/theirs family members and friends, and inviting them to step away from "male privilege" way of seeing the issue but more of "this disease affects people " way of seeing it.

I guarantee of you list the charities you have supported, I could give you a list of many you haven’t supported which could impact on your family one day.

Well that is a pointless post if I have ever seen one 🤣 I guarantee if I list the names of all of your friends there's going to be many that I don't like. Not relevant really, isn't it?!

It’s pretty relevant - they choose not to support certain charities. That’s absolutely fine, if that cause then affected a family member they would likely change their mind. That’s absolutely fine too.

@Pumperthepumper

It’s pretty relevant - they choose not to support certain charities. That’s absolutely fine, if that cause then affected a family member they would likely change their mind. That’s absolutely fine too.

It is only relevant in a hypothising argument. I am talking about something more particular, therefore, not relevant.

It is though - it was your argument with your niece, that she should care because it might affect her father. That poster is only pointing out that you could say that for any charity.

Do you think you should maybe try listening to their points of view? There seems to be massive gaps in your interpretation of that conversation.

@Pumperthepumper

It is though - it was your argument with your niece, that she should care because it might affect her father. That poster is only pointing out that you could say that for any charity.

Do you think you should maybe try listening to their points of view? There seems to be massive gaps in your interpretation of that conversation.

Oh , absolutely, and I am sure that it's understandable that just that one discussion is not what defines a family. We do disagree often, and my point was being made about me not understanding the general anti men attitude that my girls have. Nothing to do with hypothetical charities.

@thecatmother it doesn’t seem like they do have an anti-men attitude though. They don’t exclude any men-only celebration at work, only this particular one.

[quote Pumperthepumper]@thecatmother it doesn’t seem like they do have an anti-men attitude though. They don’t exclude any men-only celebration at work, only this particular one.[/quote]
I'm sorry, I have to laugh here: you are a stranger on the Internet telling me what my girls are doing.
You live and you learn.
How about we agree to disagree 😉

@thecatmother I’m going by what you said in your thread. They celebrate men-only days at work, just not this one. I think you’ve been quite ignorant in the way you’ve spoken to them, and in the way you didn’t listen to their concerns in order to brand them as man-hating. Not to mention starting a thread on here about how stupid they are.

[quote Pumperthepumper]@thecatmother I’m going by what you said in your thread. They celebrate men-only days at work, just not this one. I think you’ve been quite ignorant in the way you’ve spoken to them, and in the way you didn’t listen to their concerns in order to brand them as man-hating. Not to mention starting a thread on here about how stupid they are.[/quote]
And thank you for your valuable contribution to this post in a form of a badly conceived insult. I do hope that whatever is bothering you will be sorted soon. I would never call my girls stupid, so I guess thats all on you. I wish you well.

Right here for all to see.

@Pumperthepumper

Right here for all to see.

Bless you. Hope the rest of your week is as fruitful as this screenshot. If this is what you take away or indeed add to the discussion, I have to further point to make.

If you take anything away from this thread I hope it’s: please listen to your daughter and niece, your relationship with them both will improve if you stop encouraging strangers to slag them off on the internet. Maybe have a look at the Stately Homes threads on here too, I suspect they’ll resonate quite a bit with you.

If (some) young women would occasionally listen to older women as well as expecting to be listened to it might be mutually beneficial.
None of us were present for the conversation but the OP seems to be saying it was more than just "I prefer to support charities that help women" which no one could really argue with.

@Tailendofsummer

If (some) young women would occasionally listen to older women as well as expecting to be listened to it might be mutually beneficial. None of us were present for the conversation but the OP seems to be saying it was more than just "I prefer to support charities that help women" which no one could really argue with.

The OP is also saying they’re not anti-men though, and since we don’t have the daughter/niece’s inout, we can only give advice to the OP.

Well that is a pointless post if I have ever seen one

I guarantee if I list the names of all of your friends there's going to be many that I don't like.
Not relevant really, isn't it?!

Correct, what you said isn’t relevant at all because none of this post is about who your DD’s friends are. What I said was, as @Pumperthepumper has pointed out, in response to your point that they should support the charity because they have a dad who might one day be affected by it. You don’t appear to think that you should live by the same rule. You may struggle to understand the point, that doesn’t make my post pointless.

Do you think you should maybe try listening to their points of view?

Seems like that’s something OP might struggle with generally.

Maybe have a look at the Stately Homes threads on here too, I suspect they’ll resonate quite a bit with you.

I get that vibe too.

I give up. No wonder MumsNet has a reputation for man-hating. There are some quite insane posts here. And the fact that men doing their own fund and awareness-raising is seen as something that it's perfectly reasonable for women and girls to complain about, (and in fact is the majority view) is deeply depressing.

It is actually possible to be a feminist, to rail against male violence, to campaign for women's rights, and yet still be able to accept a charitable event run by men for men's health issues. But you wouldn't know it here.

@saraclara

I give up. No wonder MumsNet has a reputation for man-hating. There are some quite insane posts here. And the fact that men doing their own fund and awareness-raising is seen as something that it's perfectly reasonable for women and girls to complain about, (and in fact is the majority view) is deeply depressing.

It is actually possible to be a feminist, to rail against male violence, to campaign for women's rights, and yet still be able to accept a charitable event run by men for men's health issues. But you wouldn't know it here.

Where are the insane posts?

Anyone who honestly believes that mumsnet is full of manhaters honestly has a screw loose

It isnt full of feminists by any means and there are thousands of posters on here

What charities do the male members of your family give to, OP, and have you checked that they are supportive of a range of charities specifically for women? If not, why not?

This feels quite like the type of policing of women's behaviour that often puts them under pressure to be nice / kind / tolerant towards men and men's interests and causes, when men do not feel this expectation.

The other thing you could work on accepting is that no one is obliged to support any charity, or to give to one out of 'fairness' because they've supported its counterparts in some way.

Foe those saying Movember doesn't involve much effort from the men, what effort does Breast Cancer awareness month involve?

@Skiptheheartsandflowers this isn't about giving or not giving. This is about the young women's resentment of Movember even being a thing. Because men somehow shouldn't have the option that women have to publicise an awareness and charitable campaign about a cancer that affects their bits. And for no obvious reason other than that they're men, and men are Bad.

My question was about the extent to which the OP holds the men in her family to the same standards and expectations she has of these young women.

They can't stop Movember happening. They have a right to their opinion about it, and to choose not to give to it.

They're allowed to not not care about men as a class
They're allowed to be anti-men aka not put them first, be that in a particular instance or in most areas of their life.
They're allowed to prioritise other things over men and decide for themselves what charities and movements they support.
They're also allowed to be angry about what men(as a class) are doing to women whether they are directly affected or not.

Maybe they're pissed off that all men have to do is grow a moustache(which takes no time,effort and happens naturally), but if women want to get involved they have to run or walk 60 kms.