DH and his little girl - question

[FireflyLon]

So my DH asked me a question today and I really didn't know what the right answer is. We are expecting a little girl 🥰 and he asked me when he has to take her to a public toilet will he take her to the men's or women's. I said women but I was thinking I've actually never seen that. What are your thoughts?

How is she going to see a penis? Men tend to have their penis sticking out of the fly, pointed into the urinal with their hands either side of it and their back towards the communal space. At most your child would see the back of a man and hear them wee. Once they finishing weeing the tuck said penis away and (hopefully) wash their hands.

How do you know so much about the mechanics of men peeing in urinals? I’m 48, I have never seen a man pee in a public toilet!

He can always self-identify as a woman just for that instance

This isn't even funny.

I also think there are some cultural differences. When I was a child and my dad took me to swimming lessons we would go in the ladies changing room (this was in Switzerland)

So it was an issue for your dad, for you to change around men that he brought you to the women's changing room where other little girls would then have to change in front of him, a man? How does that make any sense?

If you are uncomfortable with your daughter going into the men's then they should use the disabled.

No, they shouldn't. Why do people keep saying use the disabled toilet? Being a parent isn't a disability. Those toilets are provided because disabled people campaigned for them, so that people who can't physically access the general use toilets, or need support to go to the loo, or need to be able to get to a loo quickly have a toilet they can use.

Ideally she should take her to a disabled toilet which has baby changing.
Also, it is really lazy/shit that shops etc. make the disabled toilets double-up as changing facilities, because people changing babies take ages, so the people who need those toilets (sometimes urgently) can't get in.

No a child does NOT belong in the accessible cubicle unless there is a baby changing facility in there. Accessible toilets were hard won rights for people with disabilities. Ffs.

Is that really the expectation? They won the right to have toilets available that suit their needs. That doesn't mean no one else is ever allowed to use those toilets.

@Blossomtoes

A lot of women’s loos are cleaned by men these days. I’d far rather a little girl was taken to the ladies loo by her dad than exposed to the horror of the men’s. I wouldn’t want my daughter to see random men’s penises.

Dont worry, OP is bringing up her daughter to not be afraid of men. So using the mens will not beva problem .

I and many other women would prefer no men in the womens room though.

So... a child without a choice should see male genitals on display so that others don't have to see a man in clothes, accompanied by a child (so, clearly not threatening)?
I'm actually not advocating one way or the other - actually not sure what is better! Just trying to work out why that is the best arrangement given the options (it's clearly a less of two evils problem).

@PurpleOkapi

No a child does NOT belong in the accessible cubicle unless there is a baby changing facility in there. Accessible toilets were hard won rights for people with disabilities. Ffs.

Is that really the expectation? They won the right to have toilets available that suit their needs. That doesn't mean no one else is ever allowed to use those toilets.

That’s my understanding too.

In this city he'd be told to get out by the women there already. Quite rightly.

So if you have a boy you are going to take them into the men’s are you? When I was little I went in the males loos with my dad. I went in the female loos with my mum. My kids went in the loos with whichever parent there were with until they were of an age to go by themselves.

@SausageSizzle

Parents let their young daughters use the female toilets alone because they trust that there won't be any unaccompanied males in there.

I don't. My young child might accidentally piss on the seat or floor, can't always wipe properly or flush. Can't wash their hands as can't reach the taps or work out if they are push, turn or automatic. Can't reach the hand towels or hand dryer. Until my child can do all of those things independently they aren't going to a public loo alone.

@LorenzoVonMatterhorn

My point is if we want men to be more involved in raising children why don't we make it easier for them? Our standards for fathers are on the floor compared to mothers. How do we make it any easier than it is already for men compared to women? Can they do nothing for themselves? Do they just have to take from women?

This. Mother’s have been changing nappies for both boys and girls for decades. They have taken small children into the public loo that matches the mothers sex.

Why is it so hard for fathers to do the same ?

Why is an adult male having to ask this? Why has he been totally oblivious to all the parenting of babies and children that has surrounded him for his whole life ?

I can understand that perhaps he’s has been very unfortunate and has no father, grandfather, uncles, brothers, male cousins or male friends . But surely he has been out in public before and seen male adults and children together?

I actually think urinals are 100% of the issue here?

It's not the same comparing to a mum taking a boy into the ladies - as nothing (from any party) will be on show in the ladies.

I (woman) used to take DS and DD into the ladies toilets if they were with me, DH (man) would take DS and DD into the men’s toilets with them. Basically we went with the gender of the parent in choosing

Here we go again with the silly argument that accessible toilets should be vacant at all times for people who can't wait. Disabled toilets were not created for people who need to get to the toilet quickly, they were created for people who can't access normal toilets. Some places only have an accessible toilet for everyone to share.

@katnyps

So... a child without a choice should see male genitals on display so that others don't have to see a man in clothes, accompanied by a child (so, clearly not threatening)? I'm actually not advocating one way or the other - actually not sure what is better! Just trying to work out why that is the best arrangement given the options (it's clearly a less of two evils problem).

The issue with a man in a women's space is not necessarily that he might show them his bits though is it? It's privacy for women when they are going through like miscarriage, heavy periods, or incontinence after birth. All these things sometimes need to be taken care of in public washrooms. Having op's Prince fucking charming "he can hold his own or shout that he identifies as a woman" oh lurking outside doesn't sound great.

If men's toilets are so disgusting and dangerous that he doesn't feel comfortable bringing his dc in there (although apparently he would if it was a male dc ), then do you know whose fault that isn't? Women's. Your toilets are disgusting? You sort it out. Until then, use the family changes. Yes, they exist in most big towns and cities. You just have to find them. Yes, there should be more of them and they should be more easy to find. Prince charming better get busy campaigning since he's so concerned and can hold his own. Off you pop then. Sort this out for your dd you absolute HERO.

For those who have said it, why is the idea of a small girl potentially seeing a stranger's penis any worse than the idea of a small boy seeing one?

Also, if you're ok your maybe 5 year old daughter being around naked men in the men's, why are you not ok with a clothed man around you in the ladies? Is that a bit selfish? I'm genuinely on the fence about this one

@HaveringWavering
"What about when the disabled has a baby change in it? The fact is that taking little kids for a wee can be a faff and you’re grateful for more space, a low down sink for them to wash their hands. Sometimes you need to change underwear after an accident. When your child is a baby who need the changing table it’s fine to be in there. I can’t see that there is much difference using it with a young child who still needs a lot of space and supervision. Tbh in 5 years I have never once come out of a disabled loo to find anyone other than another parent waiting outside."

When it has a changing facility in it as well and is a disabled/changing facility then it is quite obvious OK to use. But I don't agree that it being less of "faff" or having a "low down sink" is a justifiable excuse for anyone who is not disabled to be taking thier children into a disabled toilet.
Women's spaces are women's spaces so men shouldn't be in them. However it is hypocritical of the people who would say to men "This is not your space as its the women's. Get out and use the disabled.".... becuase that is saying "Youbare informing on my rights to use a space designated for me and my needs. Go and infringe on the rights of the disabled by using their space instead.".

Because the fact is that, in the same way women don't want men in with them becuase of how it makes them feel and the problems it can cause, I is an equally real problem that someone who is disabled could be left sitting outside their space needing to use the toilet but someone able bodied is in there. How many times someone has seen disabled people waiting just isn't important, becuase the fact is everyone should be using the space designated for them and their needs, and if there isn't one then that problem needs addressing as another problem altogether instead of saying it is fair to pick the ones we want to follow and ignore the ones that don't inconvenience us personally.

AryaStarkWolf You've expressed that point far more eloquently than I attempted to down-thread.

It also applies to this business of the OP's female infant needing to be in the single-sex female toilet and the OP's DH inserting himself into that toilet to achieve that (rendering it a mixed-sex toilet by his presence).

OP, your point about your DH "holding his own" if women object to a man in their single sex spaces reads very much as, "never mind, my DH will bully and intimidate any woman who dares to object into silence and do as he pleases regardless". Feel free to clarify!

So even if a man were to stray in with a child, it wouldn’t hugely affect our privacy.

I don’t want to change a tampon mere inches from a strange man, child or no child. Can some posters really not understand it can feel intimidating for women to be sat with their pants down in a vulnerable position separated by a flimsy door?

Ok so the small boy seeing an adult penis - to be honest, I guess it's no better or worse really? But to be honest I'm the kind of person who'd probably be ok with mixed sex naked saunas for families like they have in some countries so it's not my preference - just trying to get an idea from others what the issue is. So it's more that if you're having female-only problems you'd rather two doors between you and the outside world rather than just a cubicle? I guess that makes sense

@PetriDisher

AryaStarkWolf You've expressed that point far more eloquently than I attempted to down-thread.

It also applies to this business of the OP's female infant needing to be in the single-sex female toilet and the OP's DH inserting himself into that toilet to achieve that (rendering it a mixed-sex toilet by his presence).

OP, your point about your DH "holding his own" if women object to a man in their single sex spaces reads very much as, "never mind, my DH will bully and intimidate any woman who dares to object into silence and do as he pleases regardless". Feel free to clarify!

Sorry, I missed your post on it! That logic just seemed bizarre to me as well

It's privacy for women when they are going through like miscarriage, heavy periods, or incontinence after birth. All these things sometimes need to be taken care of in public washrooms

In cubicles. The cubicle is the private space. It’s completely illogical to exclude men with small daughters from women’s loos entirely.

Jesus, we allow men on maternity wards 24/7, then lose our shit about this. There’s absolutely no logic.

Oh and a man who would “hold his own” or decide to identify as a woman to gain access to women only spaces is EXACTLY why we don’t want mixed sex facilities.