I said it would happen, it happened, now what?

[Blahblahnobodylistens]

I wasn't really sure where to put this as it could cover a few areas but I'm need to ask for advice regarding 10 year old and school. This is quite lengthy as there is a bit of history which is important.

But of backstory...ds goes to a small school, each class is 2 years in one with approx 28 students per class. He is in year 5 and has had many issues with another student who is now in year 6. Last year was not an issue because they were in separate classes and all the restrictions meant they rarely crossed paths however, the year before was absolutely horrendous with tears most days due to behaviour from the other child. This behaviour included making up stories that ds had hit them and hurt them. ds was taken into the HM office on more than one occasion due to this but ds always maintained his innocence and became very upset each time. This came to an abrupt end when this child threw themselves on the floor screaming as they lined up in the playground at the start of the day, stating ds had punched her in the face. Thankfully several parents and another teacher saw what had happened and as ds was being marched to the HM office they came to his rescue and told them it was fabricated. They would also goad ds, whispering awful things to him about how he was ugly, fat (definitely not as he competes in a sport that he is regional champ in), everyone hates him etc etc and following him despite ds begging them to leave him alone and trying to walk away. That year I lost countless hours talking to his teachers, begging them to monitor the situation before he loses his shit and reacts in the way I guess she's hoping he will so he gets into serious trouble. Just to add, all of these things were always done away from the teachers, out of earshot and slyly. When this school year started, I requested a meeting with his new teacher so she was aware of the history, only because ds had huge anxiety about being back in a class with this child. She never replied, has ignored me via several channels of communication 😒

2 weeks ago this child started all old behaviours again and followed ds around the playground venting awful stuff. Ds did exactly what we have been instilling in him to do, ask her to leave him alone and go tell a teacher what is happening. He did this...and was told to stop telling tales. The 2 children ended up having a big row in the playground because they just would not leave him alone, they had a scuffle and ds got into trouble. I was so pissed off that ds had done everything we had been reinforcing him was the right thing to do yet was the one to get into trouble because he was effectively failed. I went in the next morning and had a very long chat with the TA (as the teacher wasn't available) and made it very clear that his treatment was actually very unfair when he was the one that was being goaded and was basically told to fuck off when he tried to put an end to it.

Anyway, onto yesterday...I get hauled into the classroom at the end of the day. Ds has kicked another student very hard. I was absolutely mortified and upset, I have never ever known ds to hurt anyone, but wanted to know if it was the student he's had all of the issues with..turns out it was. I asked how it had come to him losing his shit that badly and was told she wasn't sure. So I asked ds to explain and, sure enough, it was the usual story. The teacher had left the room, student makes a beeline for ds and starts mocking him because he was asking another student if she was OK as she looked upset (that's a whole other story) and apparently boys can't talk to girls as it makes them pathetic. Ds asked her to leave him alone and walked away at which point the student follows him around the class mocking him. He says that he begged the student to leave him alone and kept walking around the room to get away but they carried on and he lost his shit and kicked them.

Now I don't condone what my ds has done, far from it, but I'm pretty pissed off that it has gone this far when I have repeatedly spoken to the school warning them that there is only so much ds will take before he loses his temper unless they act on our conversations and stop the other students behaviour. And now they have labelled ds as a child who requires anger management! I actually think he's managed his anger pretty bloody well over the past 3 years despite the relentless lies and sly mocking.

So my question is, how do I move forward with this? I warned the teachers, even as recently as 2 weeks ago, that he is being pushed beyond my limits of anger coaching. I warned them that there is only so much he can take and that teachers have so far been unhelpful when he has asked for help and told them what is happening. He's done everything right so far but now he's undone all of that by kicking this student. How do I deal with this without making it look like I'm one of those parents that doesn't believe her PFB can do any wrong?? He has done wrong, he is very remorseful and even the teacher said he didn't stop apologising all day, but surely some blame should be taken off his shoulders? Yesterday they were angling all of the blame on ds and wanting to make referrals for anger management and counselling, blaming his reaction on the fact he's been upset as his grampy, my dad, died of covid in February. This has been going on since way before my dad passed and I actually resent them making attempts to blame that, rather than admitting they fucked up and misread the message I was trying to convey. But that's just me projecting I guess 😕

@DungballInADress

Not read all the replies but firstly, I'm sorry this is happening to your child. Agree with advice above regarding antibullying policy (legally it should be on their website) and letter to the chair of governors - I'm a governor and this is exactly the kind of thing we want and have to support; it is our job to hold the school fo account for their actions and decision-making. Once all of that is done, if you're still not getting anywhere Ofsted. Your child should be safe from harm at school, if he is not, they are failing at a basic level.

I'd also play devil's advocate and ask the Head if this is a diversity issue; would the situation would be different if the perpetrator was the same gender as your child?

No I reported one of my sons' nurseries to ofsted during an actual assessment. Things like having 3yos having big planks to pick up and lob in the playground and bleach in an open cupboard at two year old level. They have no authority and so did and said nothing. Whilst I agree with all advice about how to get official with the school op, bear in mind they will secretly hate you and your child will pay. I did one of those big bullying Campaigns here being recommended when my son was in year 5. The school not only continued to do nothing but they were generally hostile to the family afterward. Also I was later to discover they Filletted all letters mentioning bullying from his files as they hate being accused of not managing it. Be aware that taking your child out can often be better than getting into adult acrimony. I know it is tough in y5 as you want them to finish primary in peace. But he is not in peace.

For a start they have failed in their duty to safeguard your son never mind the other child you have informed them several times she is bullying him they have a duty of care to him as well as her and they have failed on both counts.
No more phone calls letters and emails only and if you do have a phone call email immediately "as discussed in our phone conversation at x time I just want to clarify this and this" that way everything is recorded. Schools have to let ofsted know how they deal with these things but only if it is in written form.
Escalate email the chair of governors, your local authority won't get involved unless you have exhausted the correct channels.

You also need clarification as why they believe your son has anger management issues name incidents and why were you not informed of these incidents as his parent.
As previously stated you also need to ask why was a teacher discussing your son with a parent at the classroom door why does this parent feel your son has issues where has this come from and why was this member of staff breaching confidentiality.

@Unsure33

To all those saying move schools , I understand where you are coming from but then this pupil will bully another pupil . Don’t parents also owe a duty of care to other children as well and make sure the bully does not win?

I think there are some excellent strategies on here and someone has to let the school know they cannot hide behind grief counselling and anger management when they have failed in their duty to listen to a pupils concerns for months .

Then if all else fails then move , but I would make damn sure it’s in writing and on their records .

No. Our duty of care is to our children not to make our children pay for other adults' incompetence.

@IslaPineappple

I would ask for a data disclosure so they have to provide you with every document they have on your son. It'll include all emails sent etc. Then you can see if there's been any other issues or concerns raised.

Hopefully there won't be and you can ask why they are saying he needs counselling

Yes. Write to governors not head for this. By law they have to do it within 10 working days and can only charge minimally for copying.

@FreshFancyFrogglette

What would be helpful is a meeting with all of you, together. Rather than you hearing ds's version, and siding with him, and the other dc's parent hearing her version, and siding with her.. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle, and a well chaired meeting between the 4 of you, with teachers present, would soon highlight what's actually going on here. You are right that it's not OK, or normal, but something is a bit off with your dc's account, as it doesn't really make sense. why she would go after him, unless there is some family history or something? Sounds messy. Surprised the school aren't more eager to get it sorted, as it's really disruptive for everyone. Could understand if this was a 4 form entry primary, but it sounds like a small school, why are they too busy to respond all the time :s

As a child that was badly bullied and made to do something similar I would caution against this. You don’t need to sit in a room with an aggressor and talk it out. Mediation with someone that is bullying you, child or adult, is traumatic.

[quote Blahblahnobodylistens]@Oblahdeeoblahdoe I tried so hard not to mention the gender of the other child but, reading back, realise I slipped up a couple of times 🤦‍♀️ I didn't want to go down that route and have him picked up on here for hurting a girl because he's never hurt anyone of any gender and knows never to put a hand on anyone regardless.[/quote]
You didn’t slip on gender. Bullying from girls is different from bullying from boys. That’s how you can tell it’s a girl bullying him.

My ds went through something similar but the school did eventually admit the other child was at fault. It had gotten very violent, and latterly the other child focused specifically on my son and 2 others. It's a long story but the end result was I wished I'd moved my son. That was several years ago and the perpetrator ended up in my ds secondary school. My ds described him as apologetic, sad, scared and quite frankly broken (his words). His home life had been horrific and he was using my son as a punching bag. The school tried to say that ds provoked this other lad and had to include him, accept that people can be like that and so on. I told the teacher and hm that in my estimation they were trying to force my son to accept being in an abusive relationship and apologise for being hit. In one phone call I told the teacher straight up that my ds did not trust any of them to keep him safe, that he felt he had nowhere to go. You're right to be very angry.
As for counselling, there are charities that are specifically for children, that would possibly be better as they would be a neutral and safe space for him.

I know its not fair but I'd really consider moving him , I'd also complain as high up as you can school board or whoever you can contact

Dear Blahblahnobodylistens. This is horrendous, have they even spoken to the other child's parents about this ? are those parents complaining that your child is bullying their child ? You would think that if the behaviour was genuine and your child had done all these things to the other child the parents would know about it from their incredibly upset child surely ?
This school sounds absolutely awful, I think you should put it all in writing and also complain to Ofsted, I know that if you put it in writing they are obligated to deal to with it. My son came home a few years back and we had the most awful Christmas because he broke down and told us that a group of children, led by a ringleader was bullying him and making his life a misery. I wrote a letter, detailing what was happening, how my son did not want to go to school because of it and told them that it was unacceptable and they needed to deal with it. I hand delivered the letter 2 days before the start of term, put it through the door addressed to the headmaster and the pastoral care lead so they would see it at the staff inset day before the start of term. The deputy head called me the day before term to say that ' they had no idea it had been happening' and that they would address it. I told them they wouldn't know as it was all happening in the playground and when teachers were out of the room. Every member of school staff was informed of what was happening and asked to be be on the lookout, my son was monitored through breaks etc for a couple of weeks. They eventually caught the lead bully actively encouraging kids to kick and hit my son. They brought in the parents of the lead bully and sent letters home to all of the parents of the other children involved. The headmaster spoke to all of the kids involved at the school individually. The bully left the school about 3 or 4 months after, I never learned exactly why he left, I do suspect the parents were pissed off with the school about the bullying incident, but the child kept well away from my son the rest of the time he was there. The school asked me to write a letter confirming that the situation had been dealt with to my satisfaction to put on file for their records - this was basically so that they could show they had dealt with it when an inspection came up. We did not have another incident like this again ever.
I cant believe this school are completely ignoring the unacceptable behaviour of the other child, no child should have to go through that day after day and they have seen this child fabricate incidents, I would make as much noise about this as you can. Either they commit to sorting it out properly or you should move him.

@BlokeHereInPeace

Ex school governor here. What a terrible school. Just to back up previous posters.

1. Spend the weekend doing a timeline, as accurately as possible. Brief and concise summary of what happened. If you don't know the day but know the week, put that.
2. Keep this as a live document.
3. Email the Head of the school or the Executive Head or whoever is in charge AND the Chair of Governors. Look on the school website for the Behaviour Policy (this is a legal requirement). Say in the email that there has been consistent bullying of your child and that you require a written statement on how this will be dealt with. Put the timeline as an attachment. Long emails don't get read. You may want to remind them that Governing bodies of maintained schools have a duty under section 175 of the Education Act 2002 requiring them to make arrangements to ensure that their functions are carried out with a view to safeguarding and promoting the welfare of children. The proprietors of Academies have a similar duty under paragraph 7 of Schedule 1 to the Education (Independent School Standards) (England) Regulations 2010. They must ensure that arrangements are made to safeguard and promote the welfare of pupils. Not doing this is against the law.
4. You need to also look at the school's Complaints Policy, which should be on the website. If it isn't, ask for it. Go through the procedure to complain about the school's response. You will have to follow the times specified in that policy, which will state how long the school has to respond and what options you have if they don't or you are unhappy with the response. Also ask for the bullying policy.
5. If you get nowhere then go to www.gov.uk/complain-about-school though you have to go through the school procedure first.
6. I would also let he elected representative for the relevant local authority know. Again, be concise in the email. They get sent lots of stuff. They cannot do anything until the school has had a chance to deal directly. This will probably be the County as it sounds like you are in a rural area. If you don't know your councillor then www.writetothem.com/ will show you who your councillors are.
7. DON'T waste your time talking to TAs or teachers. This is not their job to sort.
8. DON'T go after parents or other children.
9. DON'T rely on phone calls, chats in the playground.

Good luck with this and I hope it works out.

ABSOLUTELY THIS Ex school governor advice!

I am a former governer, a former teacher, and an education lecturer. The advice you have got from BlokeHereInPeace is spot on and you would be well advised to follow it to the letter. Certainly don"t engage with mediation and so on, it sounds like it has gone well beyond that and it would just reinforce the bullying at the moment. Get the formal complaints process going and let them do a bit of worrying about this for a change.

BTW what was the reaction of the other kid when he got kicked? Did this bring him up short? Did it change the behaviour pattern?

Omg, I wouldn't even bother with the teachers. Straight to reception/office, Ask for copy of their anti bullying policy. Ask for a meeting with the head teacher. If you are still not happy then write and official letter to the governors.

Sorry to hear you're both going through this shit. Personally if you think he's dealing ok with it, I wouldn't agree to the grief counselling as that obviously isn't the issue. It might make things worse for him. I hate to say this, but is there any chance that they might go to the same secondary school?
Would the school be prepared to set up a meeting with you and the girls parent and the teacher/ta/head? Just an idea? You don't know what the girl has told her parents. The school can't blame either child if its ones word against the other surely? There must be a teacher or a ta that's switched on to the situation/the girls behaviour. All credit to your son for not reacting before. I suspect thats why she's continued for as long as this as she's known him not to before. I hope you get the support you need. She sounds horrendous.

Been there and done this with one of mine.
Relentlessly harassed by another pupil and my DS wouldn't retaliate as he would have lost his school district sports place (aggressor was offered a place without trials in the hope it would motivate him to behave 😳)

Spoke to several class teachers to make them aware it was an ongoing issue and was assured it would be taken care of. Ended up with my DS being pushed off a chair and having his hand stamped on while holding a bell which sliced his hand open on the day my DS was playing a district match.

Teacher was flippant and not interested.

Next morning I demanded politely asked the head for a chat. Asked him what the schools antibullying policy was (I'd already read it back to front which helped when he didn't actually know it), and what would happen if I pushed HIM off his chair and stamped on his hand as I'd assume the police would be called and I'd be banned from school grounds on the basis of assaulting him. Then asked why its OK for my son to be assaulted on a daily basis.while under HIS care.

He tried to fob me off with promises to revoke privileges (no play time) until I asked for the governors contact details.

Not sure what happened after that but my son wasn't bothered again.

(Until secondary school at which point my son kicked his arse, was threatened with suspension and after a strongly worded email from me it wasn't mentioned again).

In short - threated to contact the governors. If they are involved it has to be logged with the education board.

Complaints dealt with internally don't.

Heads don't want negative marks against their schools.

Hope your son is OK.

Wow, this is so totally out of order. I am so sorry you are having to deal with this.

Definitely get everything documented, including dates and, if possible, evidence of when you have requested meetings with his teacher and the headteacher and been ignored.

I think at this stage I would be sending the email to the Head, but including in the email that if you haven't heard back within a specified time limit you will be contacting the governors. And follow through.

I would make sure to include the words, " you are failing in your duty to safeguard my child" , "you are not adhering to your own anti-bullying policy", "How are you going to ensure my child is safe from being bullied going forward?"

Good luck

@Blahblahnobodylistens

The school should have a system for recording incidents that happen, ask to see this log of incidents with your ds involved. Then go through those with a fine tooth comb.

Also, I would complain about the staff member who talked about your ds in the manner that they did!! Bring up gdpr!

Also explain why would your ds hold their hand up straight away when they did something wrong! Most kids lie about it. Your DS sounds honest and lovely!

I'm a teacher and the teachers absolutely should not be ignoring you, trust me if I was teaching your DS I'd have invited you in for an informal chat at the very least!!

Sending hugs! Poor they haven't seen fit to contact you before the half term!!

My dd suffered like this 25 years ago so it saddens me to hear behaviour like this is still ignored . I was also fobbed off until I was unexpectedly at school to collect her one day (usually at work) she was being held down by one bigger child and beaten by another , the teachers were looking the other way . I’m afraid I shouted rather loudly that ‘My child was being attacked ‘ while rushing over to intervene . Felt a bit overly dramatic until the HT told me off ‘as the kids would have sorted themselves out’
I took my childs’ hand , walked her up to the head and said ‘ we are leaving now to find another school , yours doesn’t work for us’.
We did , she thrived , her real friends visited us at home and are still in her life.
I reported the incident to the LEA , the head moved …. that was the only poor outcome.

Might be more accurate to say child x was harassing him than goading him. Following him around saying nasty things until he cracks?

@RhubarbCustardy

Sorry to hear you're both going through this shit. Personally if you think he's dealing ok with it, I wouldn't agree to the grief counselling as that obviously isn't the issue. It might make things worse for him. I hate to say this, but is there any chance that they might go to the same secondary school? Would the school be prepared to set up a meeting with you and the girls parent and the teacher/ta/head? Just an idea? You don't know what the girl has told her parents. The school can't blame either child if its ones word against the other surely? There must be a teacher or a ta that's switched on to the situation/the girls behaviour. All credit to your son for not reacting before. I suspect thats why she's continued for as long as this as she's known him not to before. I hope you get the support you need. She sounds horrendous.

Please don't seek a meeting with the girls' parents and school. The school will use it to knock your heads together. The other parent will try to undermine you. Watch "Carnage"! Even when polite and supportive, other parents have a conflict of interest with you. Mediation can be great, I saw it done with my son and his bully in high school by a very very experienced senco and counsellor. They used it to slaughter the bully and ask him to apologise and say how he would change in front of my son. And my son to tell him how he felt. Then I (and presumably the other parents) received a typed transcript. But that only worked because they contained and controlled that particular bully at all times.

I have a similar problem and have requested yet another meeting. They have admitted the child’s behaviour is beyond them and say they are sourcing it externally. My advice is find other parents who’s children are being bullied by the same child and create a pressure group. It’s the only way to get a school to see out of the ordinary behaviour. The child in question clearly has huge issues behaving that way and they, like your child are being failed.

My sympathies Op. when dd was in y5 she was being bullied but always out of the view of school staff . The school were brilliant and put various measures in place. The most effective was to put dd and a friend, the bully and his friend and a " neutral" child in a room with a teacher to talk about it. While initially the bully denied it all , the other Dc were able to clarify exactly what had happened. In our case the bullying stopped there. I remember the teacher was shocked that so much had happened and he had no idea.

Excellent, practical advice.

So sad for your son, who has been doing his best to deflect, ignore and just get on with school. You've advised him well and should be proud that he has done so well, until the kick. No-one could say he was unprovoked. The bully is a girl with problems, and she is not going to stop without intervention. You have been given excellent advice in earlier posts regarding documenting everything, sending a copy to teacher, HT, Chair of Governors and Ofsted. The school is letting you and your son down and you need to call them out on it. Your son should not be the one to move class or school, he is the victim of a long-term planned series of bullying incidents. Be relentless in your defence of your son, get this issue sorted out despite the obstacles that are being put in your way.

I work in a school. Chair of governors is definitely the way to go.