I said it would happen, it happened, now what?

[Blahblahnobodylistens]

I wasn't really sure where to put this as it could cover a few areas but I'm need to ask for advice regarding 10 year old and school. This is quite lengthy as there is a bit of history which is important.

But of backstory...ds goes to a small school, each class is 2 years in one with approx 28 students per class. He is in year 5 and has had many issues with another student who is now in year 6. Last year was not an issue because they were in separate classes and all the restrictions meant they rarely crossed paths however, the year before was absolutely horrendous with tears most days due to behaviour from the other child. This behaviour included making up stories that ds had hit them and hurt them. ds was taken into the HM office on more than one occasion due to this but ds always maintained his innocence and became very upset each time. This came to an abrupt end when this child threw themselves on the floor screaming as they lined up in the playground at the start of the day, stating ds had punched her in the face. Thankfully several parents and another teacher saw what had happened and as ds was being marched to the HM office they came to his rescue and told them it was fabricated. They would also goad ds, whispering awful things to him about how he was ugly, fat (definitely not as he competes in a sport that he is regional champ in), everyone hates him etc etc and following him despite ds begging them to leave him alone and trying to walk away. That year I lost countless hours talking to his teachers, begging them to monitor the situation before he loses his shit and reacts in the way I guess she's hoping he will so he gets into serious trouble. Just to add, all of these things were always done away from the teachers, out of earshot and slyly. When this school year started, I requested a meeting with his new teacher so she was aware of the history, only because ds had huge anxiety about being back in a class with this child. She never replied, has ignored me via several channels of communication 😒

2 weeks ago this child started all old behaviours again and followed ds around the playground venting awful stuff. Ds did exactly what we have been instilling in him to do, ask her to leave him alone and go tell a teacher what is happening. He did this...and was told to stop telling tales. The 2 children ended up having a big row in the playground because they just would not leave him alone, they had a scuffle and ds got into trouble. I was so pissed off that ds had done everything we had been reinforcing him was the right thing to do yet was the one to get into trouble because he was effectively failed. I went in the next morning and had a very long chat with the TA (as the teacher wasn't available) and made it very clear that his treatment was actually very unfair when he was the one that was being goaded and was basically told to fuck off when he tried to put an end to it.

Anyway, onto yesterday...I get hauled into the classroom at the end of the day. Ds has kicked another student very hard. I was absolutely mortified and upset, I have never ever known ds to hurt anyone, but wanted to know if it was the student he's had all of the issues with..turns out it was. I asked how it had come to him losing his shit that badly and was told she wasn't sure. So I asked ds to explain and, sure enough, it was the usual story. The teacher had left the room, student makes a beeline for ds and starts mocking him because he was asking another student if she was OK as she looked upset (that's a whole other story) and apparently boys can't talk to girls as it makes them pathetic. Ds asked her to leave him alone and walked away at which point the student follows him around the class mocking him. He says that he begged the student to leave him alone and kept walking around the room to get away but they carried on and he lost his shit and kicked them.

Now I don't condone what my ds has done, far from it, but I'm pretty pissed off that it has gone this far when I have repeatedly spoken to the school warning them that there is only so much ds will take before he loses his temper unless they act on our conversations and stop the other students behaviour. And now they have labelled ds as a child who requires anger management! I actually think he's managed his anger pretty bloody well over the past 3 years despite the relentless lies and sly mocking.

So my question is, how do I move forward with this? I warned the teachers, even as recently as 2 weeks ago, that he is being pushed beyond my limits of anger coaching. I warned them that there is only so much he can take and that teachers have so far been unhelpful when he has asked for help and told them what is happening. He's done everything right so far but now he's undone all of that by kicking this student. How do I deal with this without making it look like I'm one of those parents that doesn't believe her PFB can do any wrong?? He has done wrong, he is very remorseful and even the teacher said he didn't stop apologising all day, but surely some blame should be taken off his shoulders? Yesterday they were angling all of the blame on ds and wanting to make referrals for anger management and counselling, blaming his reaction on the fact he's been upset as his grampy, my dad, died of covid in February. This has been going on since way before my dad passed and I actually resent them making attempts to blame that, rather than admitting they fucked up and misread the message I was trying to convey. But that's just me projecting I guess 😕

Precisely. This only happened in our case because our son has ASD and my DH happened to be tailing him home as part of helping him to learn the route. It was fortuitous that the bully happened to do this and my DH could not remain inactive.
But yes, if the bully is like that because their parents are the problem, then you are in for a horrible shock if you confront their child. Besides which your child then gets labelled as part of a problem family.

I still admire the guts of the US woman but she was talking about life in the 1970s. Now, we have the proper mechanisms in place in theory for our children and should follow procedures rather than letting things escalate privately.

@thebetterlife21

I am pretty disgusted by the people here justifying violence. Where do you think that ends, everyone thumping each other every time they think they are in the right?

The "bully" should not be being unkind and annoying another child on purpose all the time. The dc here should NOT have kicked her.

Both dc need help.

The school needs to think about how to manage bullying.

We also don't have the full story here.

The boy didn't see the girl at all last year (so the bullying hasn't been consistently for 3 years and teachers had stepped in when it happened in the first year) and the teachers think that he developed anger management issues stemming from something which happened last year. This isn't a straightforward situation.

It seems that you have never sat up with a child that can't sleep on a Sunday night because they are scared to go to school tomorrow-not to have had your child on bended knee shaking & begging you to keep them off school because they don't know how to deal with the situation. Go & tell a teacher you say -anyone -their answer is always the same & it feels you with dread to hear it" they tell me to go away-they won't help me" . You do your best to protect & you feel so very helpless. I am afraid I don't hold with this let the children sort it out or the school will sort it out they won't. I'm afraid I don't hold out much hope with the talking to parents-children are often bullies because of where they have come from. In my grand daughters case age 7 the bully poked her in tge eye with a stick resulting in my daughter being called to take her to the eye A&E where she needed several appointments and check ups as her eyeball had been damaged. My daughter spoke to the bullies mother who replied -well if she'd been wearing her glasses she wouldn't have got hurt ( she wore glasses for reading but irrelevant)tge school did nothing & this went on for 2 years. I am afraid there are some nasty children out there & they will become I assume nasty adults . Do not pass this off as just being unkind it is way beyond that this is the ruination of a young boys life , his confidence, his view of the world, his childhood & you do OP a disservice. To have this response it is obvious you have no clue what this is like

It seems to me that ‘the teacher left the room’ indicates a way in to a full blown complaint. If the “pain in the neck kid” had time to do all that harrassment of your ds, then I think I would be asking why the class teacher is out of the room - especially for so long.
FWIW, my son had similar experiences at Primary School and so Inchanged his school. At first he was really upset, but soon settled in and I could stop worrying. My sone is now an accountant and doing well; the other kid, now grown up too of course, has neverbheld down a job more than a few months and has 4 kids, each with a different person. So there we are. Karma!

Ask to see the Peer on Peer Abuse part of their Safeguarding Policy alongside their Anti-bullying Policy and ask for the school's Designated Safeguarding Lead to attend any meeting you have.

BlueMongoose - my understanding is that she had done all the right things and got nowhere. As a deputy head I know what gets results.

@non123 my dc have experienced bullying and I can relate to all the feelings you refer to. I don't think children should be left to sort things out between themselves. I sometimes talk to DC about strategies to deal, I sometimes email the teacher, it depends. I think maybe read my post again because it doesn't say what you think it does. I said that hitting is not okay. Bear in mind that hitting could also escalate things even further.

My son was bullied at primary school. A very clever boy recruited a shy, not so confident child as part of it and sometimes involved others. I tried like yourself to help him cope but it really spiralled out of control. The parent was VERY involved with the school and when I went in to a meeting (after he spat in my son's face) the year head said as much, " I
know x's parents very well and they will be so disappointed". Just like your situation they were a menace - following him about, and trying to alienate him from other children.
He went to a different middle school and ended up with this lad later at A-levels and this child still remained moody, rude and disliked by his peers. It sort of brought closure for my now more mature child.
I think he finally got that it was not himself to blame.
But the main point I want to make is that teachers managed the situation badly and it became obvious to me in discussions down the line that the bullying had a marked effect on my sons self esteem. I wanted to teach him to stand his ground but when dealing with this nastiness it falls outside of any young child's capabilities and when he lost his cool that ended up affecting his self worth too.
I regret not moving him to this day. I think it would have been easier in the end.
Good luck x

I am so sorry to read what your DS is going through, OP, and you, too.

I was bullied (mainly psychological, but sometimes physically) by a boy in my class, from age 12 to 16. He knew what he was doing, for example, he said to me one Friday "I'm not gonna pick on you next week, I'm gonna do it to someone else". He must have changed his mind over the weekend, as Monday and all of the following days were full of him and his bullying. It was absolutely relentless.

This was back in the 1970s and, although I told my form teachers and my parents (who went down all the correct channels) nothing was ever done about it.

I went from being a straight A student aged 12 to playing truant for weeks at a time, being moved from O'levels to CSEs (both now combined to be GCSEs) and left school with one O'level, in English Language. I learnt most of that from my parents tbh.

Most Sunday nights I would try to come up with reasons why I could genuinely stay home for some time. This included trying to "accidentally" trip/throw myself down the stairs (from top to bottom), "accidentally" breaking my nose by smacking it against my dressing table...that sort of thing.

My parents and older brother did all that they could to help me. The school? Absolutely nothing. They didn't seem to correlate the decline in my grades and attendance with the rise in my reports of bullying.

After we left school he murdered a woman. Following his release, he murdered another.

He will be behind bars for the rest of his life.

It tortures me that, if someone had only listened to me, both deaths could have been prevented.

I appreciate that the above isn't practical advice, OP, but all I would say is that you should NOT let this go. Move your son to another school by all means if you both feel that is the right thing, but don't leave the bully free to target someone else. Until she, and the roots behind her bullying, are confronted and managed, she will continue on this damaging and potentially dangerous path.

Sending really positive thoughts to you. You should be very proud of your DS. I would.

👍🤞

I feel for you x my dd went to the private school I worked at. She was never accepted an had an awful time with bullying. I could not complain due to working there, but after dd self harming (in year 6) husband got involved. School were not interested, blamed dd (other kids very rich, parents ball breakers/on teachers/ heads constantly) she went to the upper school (against my wishes) had 2 absolutely awful years where it got worse, before we moved her. It was the BEST decision we EVER made. She went to another school, got A & Ad's in GCSE and A AA at A level. For your child to do their best you need to get them away from the distractions (bullying) the school (No matter what their anti bullying policy says) will not help you. Do the best for your child and yours and their mental health, and get them away. They will excel away from all of this crap xx Take it from someone who's been there! Good Luck x

@Opal8

That's totally unacceptable Start asking for the policy documents, start making noise at County hall and involve the governors. Use words like: Unsafe environment Impacted learning Risk register

Please remember you can only turn to ' County Hall' if the school is Local Authority maintained, not if it is an academy, who run out of LA control.

@Oblahdeeoblahdoe

Absolutely write to Head Teacher and Governors. Make an official complaint and threaten to make a Safeguarding complaint to Ofsted. Sounds like it's sexist crap that boys shouldn't hurt girls but she can get away with anything. I'd also insist they interview other children individually as witnesses, they will probably be afraid of the girl to make an open witness statement. I feel for your boy. It must be awful for him to not be believed.

You have to give a comprehensive list of all your efforts to contact the teacher.

Note all the assaults.

Note every incident that you have been given the brush off by the school.

Note the teacher ignoring your efforts to contact her.

You need to really list everything.

You need to spell out your childs daily distress at his being relentlessly targeted by this child.

That you have now been told there are also other children being targeted but NOTHING has been done.

Local child services as your child is now nervous of going to school.

After 3 years of ignoring the situation and allowing him to be relentlessly bullied, he has cracked and retaliated and the school have decided HE needs anger management.

They are a disgrace and definitely Ofsted and your local child services office needs contacting.

You need to ask for support for your child because the school clearly don't give a damn about him.

@MarchingOn 💔

Look up the school's Complaints policy, it should be on their website. Follow it to the letter.

If you jump a stage, ie go straight to Ofsted without going to Governors first, it's likely you'll be referred straight back to them, so make sure you do everything in the right order.

Get your evidence in place, names, dates, times etc and refer back to their own policies.
Good luck, it sounds a horrid situation.

blahblah This is a long thread so I hope my recollection relates to your issue and not another poster. Didn't you say that there was an occasion when the other child feigned being hurt by your son but there were witnesses who said she had thrown herself on the floor? If I'm correct, then, when you are documenting incidents and the number of approaches you have made to the school, it is important that this incident is emphasized - with names of the people who had intervened on your son's behalf.

I agree with those who say you should document everything you can remember, with exact or approximate dates, and make a formal complaint. It appears that verbal approaches to the teacher and head teacher do not result in appropriate action being taken and in order for them to take the matter seriously they need to see that you are determined to pursue this matter at a higher level.

To the poster who says it's the OP's responsibility, not the school's, I disagree. The OP has been trying to get this matter taken seriously and acted upon. While children are in school, they are the school's responsibility. As others have said, it is not always feasible to move to another school.

I think some of the points suggested by LookitsmeAgain and Dauphinois are particularly useful.

This must be terribly upsetting for your child and you. I hope this school is forced to get its act together and deal with this matter properly.

If this bully is not stopped she will continue this into her adult life and in to the workplace. I would move your son to another school.Its not running away you are fighting a battle you will not win be cause this little madam is a cunning devious little vixen who knows full well that verbal abuse is hard to prove . The most devious bullies manipulate others in to doing their dirty work for them .Eventually this is what she will do.

@thebetterlife21

I am pretty disgusted by the people here justifying violence. Where do you think that ends, everyone thumping each other every time they think they are in the right?

The "bully" should not be being unkind and annoying another child on purpose all the time. The dc here should NOT have kicked her.

Both dc need help.

The school needs to think about how to manage bullying.

We also don't have the full story here.

The boy didn't see the girl at all last year (so the bullying hasn't been consistently for 3 years and teachers had stepped in when it happened in the first year) and the teachers think that he developed anger management issues stemming from something which happened last year. This isn't a straightforward situation.

Just taking your first paragraph into account shows you have absolutely no idea. My dd is in yr11. She has been targeted off and on since year 7. The bullies when she was in year 7 were on her bus. They used to follow her off the bus and into her classroom, 9 of them, all boys. The first I knew of it was when she burst out crying for no apparent reason one night and I had to coax it out of her. Next day, dh took her to school whilst I rang them. The head of year was waiting and witnessed them following her into her form room. They were all caught in the act. They didn't do it again, school came down on them like a tonne of bricks, but sadly where they left off, others followed. She is in yr11 now. Covid bubbles haven't helped, some of the younger kids think they are all that and a bag of chips, rather than the hierarchy that would normally follow in a school. This year when they started on her, teacher's witnessed it but didn't act because she absolutely roared at them and they appeared contrite. No, they came back to have another go, so she gave the main protagonist one thump. Job done. And she didn't think she was right as you put it, she knew she was right. A bully is never right for picking in those people they perceive to be different or weaker on them.

I told school she'd thumped him and they better act on the bullying as I don't want her last year ruining by those people.
Again they have stepped up and warned them.
I am proud of my daughter. She gave them a clear verbal warning what would happen if they persisted, they did and it happened

I feel for you. My DS was bullied but you may find that know that he has stood up for himself and hurt them, they will back off.

Our school did nothing to help. I told my son to hit the boy as hard as he could if he tried it again and that I would tell the school that I had instructed him to do it.

He ended up hitting him, we were called in. I told the teacher it was my idea. She couldn't say anything but that little shit never bullied him again.

Similar thing happened to my child in a small, private school. One girl leading a group of children whose parents had all gone to NCT together. The girl's mum was also a teacher at the school. I finally removed him at Xmas in Y5. Best thing I ever did but I feel huge regret for not doing it sooner. For years my son was always on red alert, waiting for people to have a go at him.

The girl moved to the same secondary as my son and started trying the same thing there but they stopped it instantly and he went through the rest of secondary with no problem from her.

He's been quite badly affected by it all though. He's 20 now and still won't talk about that primary school as he doesn't want to remember it.

@Oblahdeeoblahdoe

Absolutely write to Head Teacher and Governors. Make an official complaint and threaten to make a Safeguarding complaint to Ofsted. Sounds like it's sexist crap that boys shouldn't hurt girls but she can get away with anything. I'd also insist they interview other children individually as witnesses, they will probably be afraid of the girl to make an open witness statement. I feel for your boy. It must be awful for him to not be believed.

This. You need to escalate it beyond the class teachers who appear to know what's going on but are doing nothing to safeguard your son. Make it clear in your letters that you are prepared to report the failure of the school's bullying policy to Ofsted, because while you recognise your son has been at fault on this occasion, the systematic bullying and provocation being undertaken by this other child is going unpunished and it is causing him serious emotional harm and the school has a duty of care to him as much as they do any other pupil.

You MUST escalate this to the Chair of Governors immediately. The school will have their own records of every incident (or certainly should) and you will need your record as well, as PPs have said. Do not bother talking to the head again; this needs now to go to full complaint mode.
Ime, primary schools really struggle with handling bullying because it goes against their self-image as being nice, friendly families. I saw this as a parent and as a governor. You need to move this away from the teaching staff and into the governors' court, and make it official so the school can't keep pushing it away as having an external cause (in your case, your DS's grief).

If this was two adults, we’d be calling it abuse
Doesn’t matter who done the hitting - this is what battered spouses do eventually, when their abusive spouse continues to goad them. That’s the aim
I hope you didn’t wait for a appointment and walked IN and demand it’s dealt with

You can threaten with solicitor and talk about restraining orders etc
And threaten them with it with allowing your DS to be abused.
Just because it’s school, doesn’t mean it’s ok?
Poor guy sounds like he’s in knots over it …
And I hope you went full mama bear when the anger management was mentioned!?
I’d say “ it better be a referral for MY anger management over this situation?”
I’ll bet they’ve tried referred HER before but got nowhere , so they can say they’re following protocol.

I hope you can have a productive talk with the Head.

I agree that it's time to change the narrative to that your son is being bullied and the school has not acted on it.

Good luck!

Yes do what Opal8 above has said. I rang a national bullying help line who told me to book a meeting with the head and firstly asked for their anti bullying policy, was asked why and I said that I was now putting in a major complaint against the School. I turned up fir the meeting, the head was nowhere to be seen just my daughters teacher who was very well ‘oh how can we support your daughter’ which I replied this is the umpteenth time I had complained, years earlier the previous head brought the other girls parents into School to talk to them about her behaviour. I just kept telling myself in the meeting that’s it the final straw. I just said to the teacher no more give me the policy, I’m contacting etc etc about this and seen as the School is incapable of dealing with bullying then all of the organisations above it in their complaints policy are being written to including Ofsted. The teacher was just saying oh there’s no need we’ll sort this so I said that I have been advised by the anti bullying charity, she started to panic a bit, and I said you’ve got 1 week to change this situation, move her out of the same class and monitor at break and lunch or that’s it. It started dying down then, they moved the other kid and fortunately this was now at the end of primary but had been going on for years, my daughter had so much time off School . Mine was really happy when it was School breaks so she didn’t have to be near her. And fortunately this kid went to a private School in year 7 so not near her in that way but she does live at the other side of the village but not seen her since. Look up the i think it’s the national bullying helpline and ring them they’ll give you the exact route to take, plus you can say that you’ve sought their advice. I know it’s awful and it’s the School’s job to be caring for your kids whilst they are in their care but clearly as they can’t do it then just go above their heads. Hope this helps.

Short letter to HM, copied to Chair of Governors summarising your previous contacts with their staff and their total failure to defend your son.
Stress that your son finally gave up walking away from the little bitch’s provocations and retaliated - it is obvious he didn’t do much damage (one kick?) - a similar situation in a village school in the 40s would have resulted in a real scrap, but of course the prospect of such retaliation would have been its own deterrent. The staff are entirely to blame putting your son in the position where if they were not prepared to defend him he did their job for them.