I said it would happen, it happened, now what?

[Blahblahnobodylistens]

I wasn't really sure where to put this as it could cover a few areas but I'm need to ask for advice regarding 10 year old and school. This is quite lengthy as there is a bit of history which is important.

But of backstory...ds goes to a small school, each class is 2 years in one with approx 28 students per class. He is in year 5 and has had many issues with another student who is now in year 6. Last year was not an issue because they were in separate classes and all the restrictions meant they rarely crossed paths however, the year before was absolutely horrendous with tears most days due to behaviour from the other child. This behaviour included making up stories that ds had hit them and hurt them. ds was taken into the HM office on more than one occasion due to this but ds always maintained his innocence and became very upset each time. This came to an abrupt end when this child threw themselves on the floor screaming as they lined up in the playground at the start of the day, stating ds had punched her in the face. Thankfully several parents and another teacher saw what had happened and as ds was being marched to the HM office they came to his rescue and told them it was fabricated. They would also goad ds, whispering awful things to him about how he was ugly, fat (definitely not as he competes in a sport that he is regional champ in), everyone hates him etc etc and following him despite ds begging them to leave him alone and trying to walk away. That year I lost countless hours talking to his teachers, begging them to monitor the situation before he loses his shit and reacts in the way I guess she's hoping he will so he gets into serious trouble. Just to add, all of these things were always done away from the teachers, out of earshot and slyly. When this school year started, I requested a meeting with his new teacher so she was aware of the history, only because ds had huge anxiety about being back in a class with this child. She never replied, has ignored me via several channels of communication 😒

2 weeks ago this child started all old behaviours again and followed ds around the playground venting awful stuff. Ds did exactly what we have been instilling in him to do, ask her to leave him alone and go tell a teacher what is happening. He did this...and was told to stop telling tales. The 2 children ended up having a big row in the playground because they just would not leave him alone, they had a scuffle and ds got into trouble. I was so pissed off that ds had done everything we had been reinforcing him was the right thing to do yet was the one to get into trouble because he was effectively failed. I went in the next morning and had a very long chat with the TA (as the teacher wasn't available) and made it very clear that his treatment was actually very unfair when he was the one that was being goaded and was basically told to fuck off when he tried to put an end to it.

Anyway, onto yesterday...I get hauled into the classroom at the end of the day. Ds has kicked another student very hard. I was absolutely mortified and upset, I have never ever known ds to hurt anyone, but wanted to know if it was the student he's had all of the issues with..turns out it was. I asked how it had come to him losing his shit that badly and was told she wasn't sure. So I asked ds to explain and, sure enough, it was the usual story. The teacher had left the room, student makes a beeline for ds and starts mocking him because he was asking another student if she was OK as she looked upset (that's a whole other story) and apparently boys can't talk to girls as it makes them pathetic. Ds asked her to leave him alone and walked away at which point the student follows him around the class mocking him. He says that he begged the student to leave him alone and kept walking around the room to get away but they carried on and he lost his shit and kicked them.

Now I don't condone what my ds has done, far from it, but I'm pretty pissed off that it has gone this far when I have repeatedly spoken to the school warning them that there is only so much ds will take before he loses his temper unless they act on our conversations and stop the other students behaviour. And now they have labelled ds as a child who requires anger management! I actually think he's managed his anger pretty bloody well over the past 3 years despite the relentless lies and sly mocking.

So my question is, how do I move forward with this? I warned the teachers, even as recently as 2 weeks ago, that he is being pushed beyond my limits of anger coaching. I warned them that there is only so much he can take and that teachers have so far been unhelpful when he has asked for help and told them what is happening. He's done everything right so far but now he's undone all of that by kicking this student. How do I deal with this without making it look like I'm one of those parents that doesn't believe her PFB can do any wrong?? He has done wrong, he is very remorseful and even the teacher said he didn't stop apologising all day, but surely some blame should be taken off his shoulders? Yesterday they were angling all of the blame on ds and wanting to make referrals for anger management and counselling, blaming his reaction on the fact he's been upset as his grampy, my dad, died of covid in February. This has been going on since way before my dad passed and I actually resent them making attempts to blame that, rather than admitting they fucked up and misread the message I was trying to convey. But that's just me projecting I guess 😕

I suppose it would be frowned upon for your son to secretly record any interactions with this bully? It would be good if the teachers could be shown exactly who is the problem.

Without going down all the bullying stuff in shocked the teacher did not reply or meet/talk to you when requested at start of the year.
It just not good enough for teachers not too engage with parents. Then asking you via email about councillor. If they can't get basic communication right don't hold out much hope for them resolving bullying issues

I hate to say it but you need to get all Karen on this (I know people hate that saying but it does have its place and its place is here) you need to keep pressing and pressing and pressing, every day until you get a satisfactory meeting with the right people. Go in and say I'd like to talk to the HM. If they say he's not available right now say OK I'll wait then. You've done polite, you've done correct means. If that dosnt work then put the foot down. Demand She's moved.

Anothercrazybirdlady: I would be asking the school what examples they can give you of your DS's 'anger' which are not connected to the other pupil - I'll bet there are none when they are not involved.

I agree with this. I work in a primary school and we have a child with genuine anger issues. He will lash out at anyone in his way when he’s in that frame of mind. People he actually really likes and normally gets on well with, staff - he loses control, a mist comes down and it’s almost like he stops seeing who is in front of him. If you are in the way you are fair game. We spend a lot of time and energy preventing him getting to that point precisely because he is then so unpredictable and aggressive. If your son has anger issues I would expect other children to have been on the receiving end of it on multiple occasions. And other incidents where no one got hurt too. Throwing pencils and/or chairs. Throwing books on the floor. Running away in a rage. Kicking a wall, flinging a door back and slamming it - that sort of thing.

A one off is a reaction to a specific incident, not an indication of his deep rooted behaviour problems.

Agree with pps and I would remove consent for counselling referral until you've had a proper & satisfactory response to all your concerns. Definitely trying to paint a picture there. Write up a chronology of events, make a formal written complaint, invoke safeguarding procedures. No more waiting for people to get back to you.

I'd go back to the school today (if you can leave your son behind to be looked after by a relative or your DH that would be helpful) and I'd demand a meeting with the teacher and the Principal today. That way, when the children return after mid-term break they can start afresh.

1 - I would say that you've had a change of mind and you no longer consent to 'grief counselling' for your DS. If it is required, you will look into it outside of the scope of the school. You don't feel that the school can distinguish anger arising from grief with being bullied repeatedly and then being pushed past your limit, which is what happened yesterday.

2 - you have raised these issues with the school since the other pupil joined and repeatedly raised them and they ignored your concerns up to the point that the other pupil was struck/kicked.

3 - They have severely dropped the ball in relation to safeguarding your child and you want to go through the anti-bullying policy with them so that when the pupils return after mid-term, that a robust plan is put in place so that no further incidents occur.

4 - they have also dropped the ball in dealing properly and comprehensively with the other pupil and why they are doing what they are doing repeatedly to your son. While your interest is in preparing for the second part of term for your son to return to his friends and do so in a safe manner, the school have made mistakes where this other pupil is concerned too.

5 - while it might be hearsay, you clearly overheard the parent of the other pupil discuss with the class teacher in the corridor (where anyone else could have overheard too) and you heard "I know he has issues", so you'd like to get clarification about who said what to her as you did not give consent for your child to be the topic of local gossip.

6 - You want to have a follow up meeting two weeks after they return from mid-term break to discuss the situation, see if there are any improvements or issues that are concerning you at that point and take it from there.

That's what I would do.

Whether or not you look to move schools, I would make it clear when you talk to the Head/ his teacher, that this is bad enough now for you to be considering moving schools.

Saying to the head and form teacher that this was one of the things we were considering, when DS was bullied at primary school, was one of the things that made them finally step up in dealing with it.

HOWEVER I do think the option to move schools IS one you should truly look at. He can stay in contact socially with mates. He will see them again at secondary school.

We didn't move DS. Things got a lot better; His bullying ordeals were in year 3. BUT even in year 6 the bully was still an issue, just these times DS was always fully believed and backed by the teachers. So chances of it getting better fully or quicker are slim at your stage in the school.

The best thing for DS was going to a different secondary school to his bully.

DS didn't join the local football team because his bully/ ex-bully is in that team. He travels to a different football team. But he loves playing football. So that's the main thing - akin to your DS finding a school class he can be happy and safe to be in.

If HT ignores you then to the governors and the council

’I hate to say it but you need to get all Karen on this (I know people hate that saying but it does have its place and its place is here)’

It really isn’t.

PS - also, some of DS's friendship group moved away and therefore moved late in primary schools, and also even if they didn't move house, ended up going to different secondary schools . However they've all stayed in touch, meet ups, online together, the friendships are all still strong. So that's what I mean about him being able to stay in touch socially with his mates. Particularly if you facilitate this when you can.

As PPs have said, write down everything you can remember and send it in an e-mail to the Head. Also, ask why the class was left unsupervised and why teachers haven't helped him when he's told them about what's been going on.

@Carboncheque

’I hate to say it but you need to get all Karen on this (I know people hate that saying but it does have its place and its place is here)’

It really isn’t.

Nope. It's about time we stop using gendered slurs. Especially this one.

Sorry, that should've been @Sitchervice.

Another one to say be all over this. Turn into that parent even if you don’t think you can. Take a deep breath and keep on. Bear in mind that you might need to change his school.

Bullying like this is really awful. Do not expect those in charge to be dealing with it, they are not, and you are the only one who can protect him.

OP, I do have experience of small village primary schools as my DDs attended one and I am also a teacher. Small schools can be fantastic and nurturing places. However, when things go wrong, they can lack the expertise to sort them, particularly if they are inexperienced (i.e. cheap) teachers/TAs and have not worked in a range of different types of setting.

I think that if the school is part of a MAT, you need to bypass the Head (of Teaching & Learning?) and go above them. Go to the Executive Head. Phone their PA and ask for an appointment. Whilst on the phone, ask for copies of their bullying, safeguarding and discipline policies to be emailed to you. In short, your DS is being failed by them, what do they intend to do about it? They have refused to respond in a timely manner so you have no choice but to escalate this.

If you can, speak to the person who taught your DS last academic year, when he was away from the bully and in the bubble. This teacher will have had most of a year working with your DS and know that he doesn't have anger issues, so they could be a very useful ally.

Whilst I understand the clamour to move him, if he can manage it, I would stick it out. The bully has only 31 more school weeks left in that setting (yes, I am that sad that I know how long the school year is).

@Thepennysjustdropped oh well I still think the op should put her foot down.

If people don't like the gendered slur then let's just change the meaning instead from moaning woman, to a woman who gets stuff done.

I was told that this behaviour from the other child is not aimed at ds and there are ongoing issues towards other children,and is on their radar.

I'm also interested in who she bullied during the year your son wasn't available.
And where she has learned this aggression and lying from. Falling down in front of people claiming he hit her - this seems an extreme level of manipulation for a child.
But fundamentally, I do wonder if she enjoys having your son's attention and thinks this is the only way to get it. The more he avoids her the more she'll push to receive it.
Just my take.

"I would be asking the school what examples they can give you of your DS's 'anger' which are not connected to the other pupil - I'll bet there are none when they are not involved."

Absolutely this from a PP

Get a meeting with the head.
Have a long list of every time this girl has bullied your son.
Add every time you've contacted the school and they've failed to protect your son.
Present it to the head and ask how the school is going to keep your son safe from relentless bullying.

Then sit back and hear what they say.
If they blame your son's grief - point out he's only had a problem with the girl who bullies him. If they mention anger - his only problem is with the girl who bullies him. Stick to asking how your son is being kept safe from this bullying.

If they won't engage with that, perhaps remind them that that 10 is the age of criminal responsibility, and you will therefore refer to the police if the school refuses to protect your son.

It shouldn't come to that, but it sounds like you've raised this nicely, and now you need to raise it less nicely.

How old is your child? How old is the other child?

In your shoes, I would be tempted to report this child to the police for harassment and assault (if she's over the age of 10). I would inform the school that you have done so, and that you will be collecting evidence from now on to pass on to the police.

If your DS is under the age of 10, he is under the age of criminal responsibility and no action can be taken against him for kicking the other child.

I would also make noises about instructing a lawyer to take civil action against the school if they continue to fail to safeguard and protect your son. You could also consider getting a restraining order against this child so she can't approach your DS.

Basically, become that parent and be the biggest pain in the ass you can. Go nuclear. You've given them enough chances to sort this out.

I don't think he has done anything wrong tbh.

I'd not be punishing him and I'd make it clear that if she keeps this up, he is perfectly free to hit her until she learns to leave him the fuck alone. I would also make it clear that I would not be permitting the school to punish him either so if if they want him to stop hitting this child then they will have to address the bullying.

One way or the other it will stop. Either because the child realises he isn't just taking it anymore or because the school do. When I was being bullied I remember my dad telling me that I just had to be more willing to hurt them than they were to hurt me. A boy pushed me in front of a bus and the next day I sent him to hospital. He didn't do it twice.

We had this situation between DS at a much younger age in our case teacher and TAs were well aware DS was being wound up and they endorsed the come and tell us DS got very frustrated that he did and was told to go away every time.

I never got anywhere with it just round and round in circles. In end requested to see HT about getting them seperated next year - two form entry school- could only see deputy but she said well of course the teacher will have requested this - came back and apologise later as they hadn't.

Never had an issue again at that school. There were issues with other child - though the other parents were actually lovely about whole and seemed aware of what he could be like.

However some other parents labled DS as bad it was luckily he was much older before he was back in a class with their children.

DN has similar though she was being isolated then turned on and it was happening outside school groups as well - if she tried to play with other child claimed she was excluding and bullying her and DN was one in trouble. School balmed DN and her parenst split when she was a baby and put her in anger management sessions despite not having any examples of her being violent. Other child did have some SEN but DN had her own problems and this was making her very unhappy. Rare instance of DN parents working together though it only really improved next year different mixed class and teacher.

If you can't move schools - written complaint listing incidents and saying you've requested meetings with this teacher. If that gets no where get a copy of bullying prodcures and follow the schools complaints procedures and tehn go to next step.

I grew up rurally - and while most of my village went to x secondary becuase there was transport there were other options that some children usually for bullying reasons went to instread. So might be worth looking at all options though perhaps in a secondary it will be large enough to avoid issues.

If things are as you say then I don't feel a bit sorry for the girl he kicked.

If my daughter was the bully in that situation I would still feel the same. Don't hand it out if you can't take it back.

Agree with PP, lots of paper trails, any in person conversations should be followed up with an email from you confirming what was spoken about and stating who was present, don't let this one drop until you have a satisfactory resolution.

You need a detailed timeline, have you any emails already sent ?

Make as many notes as you can remember - when you speak to someone you might forget something.

I'm going to get lynched for saying this but if I'd have beaten up my bully just once it would have saved me years of being bullied. And in todays climate he'll probably get a sticker or award tthe week after for being good.