I said it would happen, it happened, now what?

[Blahblahnobodylistens]

I wasn't really sure where to put this as it could cover a few areas but I'm need to ask for advice regarding 10 year old and school. This is quite lengthy as there is a bit of history which is important.

But of backstory...ds goes to a small school, each class is 2 years in one with approx 28 students per class. He is in year 5 and has had many issues with another student who is now in year 6. Last year was not an issue because they were in separate classes and all the restrictions meant they rarely crossed paths however, the year before was absolutely horrendous with tears most days due to behaviour from the other child. This behaviour included making up stories that ds had hit them and hurt them. ds was taken into the HM office on more than one occasion due to this but ds always maintained his innocence and became very upset each time. This came to an abrupt end when this child threw themselves on the floor screaming as they lined up in the playground at the start of the day, stating ds had punched her in the face. Thankfully several parents and another teacher saw what had happened and as ds was being marched to the HM office they came to his rescue and told them it was fabricated. They would also goad ds, whispering awful things to him about how he was ugly, fat (definitely not as he competes in a sport that he is regional champ in), everyone hates him etc etc and following him despite ds begging them to leave him alone and trying to walk away. That year I lost countless hours talking to his teachers, begging them to monitor the situation before he loses his shit and reacts in the way I guess she's hoping he will so he gets into serious trouble. Just to add, all of these things were always done away from the teachers, out of earshot and slyly. When this school year started, I requested a meeting with his new teacher so she was aware of the history, only because ds had huge anxiety about being back in a class with this child. She never replied, has ignored me via several channels of communication 😒

2 weeks ago this child started all old behaviours again and followed ds around the playground venting awful stuff. Ds did exactly what we have been instilling in him to do, ask her to leave him alone and go tell a teacher what is happening. He did this...and was told to stop telling tales. The 2 children ended up having a big row in the playground because they just would not leave him alone, they had a scuffle and ds got into trouble. I was so pissed off that ds had done everything we had been reinforcing him was the right thing to do yet was the one to get into trouble because he was effectively failed. I went in the next morning and had a very long chat with the TA (as the teacher wasn't available) and made it very clear that his treatment was actually very unfair when he was the one that was being goaded and was basically told to fuck off when he tried to put an end to it.

Anyway, onto yesterday...I get hauled into the classroom at the end of the day. Ds has kicked another student very hard. I was absolutely mortified and upset, I have never ever known ds to hurt anyone, but wanted to know if it was the student he's had all of the issues with..turns out it was. I asked how it had come to him losing his shit that badly and was told she wasn't sure. So I asked ds to explain and, sure enough, it was the usual story. The teacher had left the room, student makes a beeline for ds and starts mocking him because he was asking another student if she was OK as she looked upset (that's a whole other story) and apparently boys can't talk to girls as it makes them pathetic. Ds asked her to leave him alone and walked away at which point the student follows him around the class mocking him. He says that he begged the student to leave him alone and kept walking around the room to get away but they carried on and he lost his shit and kicked them.

Now I don't condone what my ds has done, far from it, but I'm pretty pissed off that it has gone this far when I have repeatedly spoken to the school warning them that there is only so much ds will take before he loses his temper unless they act on our conversations and stop the other students behaviour. And now they have labelled ds as a child who requires anger management! I actually think he's managed his anger pretty bloody well over the past 3 years despite the relentless lies and sly mocking.

So my question is, how do I move forward with this? I warned the teachers, even as recently as 2 weeks ago, that he is being pushed beyond my limits of anger coaching. I warned them that there is only so much he can take and that teachers have so far been unhelpful when he has asked for help and told them what is happening. He's done everything right so far but now he's undone all of that by kicking this student. How do I deal with this without making it look like I'm one of those parents that doesn't believe her PFB can do any wrong?? He has done wrong, he is very remorseful and even the teacher said he didn't stop apologising all day, but surely some blame should be taken off his shoulders? Yesterday they were angling all of the blame on ds and wanting to make referrals for anger management and counselling, blaming his reaction on the fact he's been upset as his grampy, my dad, died of covid in February. This has been going on since way before my dad passed and I actually resent them making attempts to blame that, rather than admitting they fucked up and misread the message I was trying to convey. But that's just me projecting I guess 😕

Sometimes violence is the answee to escalation. Which is why we teach self defense.

To avoid escalation...

A similar thing happened with us in a small village school (100ish students) DS was repeatedly singled out by one girl - she was a high achieving girl who did well in everything and DS firmly middle of the pack, and he was labelled as a bit of a troublemaker, but any incidents were only ever with this one girl. He didn't hit or kick her, but it was all behaviour-related.

School systematically let him down time and time again, and even got us in to talk to the SENCO because they thought DS "might be on the spectrum"

He's not (not that this should make a difference) and they minimised her behaviour by attempting to victim blame.

The final straw was when they were in Yr 4 and went on a residential. She asked DS to meet her in the girls' bedroom and got all the other girls to leave, so he would get into trouble for going in when it was just the 2 of them. It makes my blood run cold at the thought of my little boy being labelled in this way (completely naive and innocent he was at that time) and also that she even considered doing that.
A TA overheard two of the other girls talking and giggling about her plan (thank God) and stopped DS from going in to the bedroom, but the girl was not punished as "ultimately nothing happened."

We moved him in the final half term of year 4, to a much bigger (400+students) primary, where he never experienced bullying again, made loads of friends and his attainment quickly improved. His work and focus was so much better and it made us realise just how much she was impacting him.

He saw moving schools as really good preparation for secondary (Yr 8 now) and was so much more settled that he never considered it unfair. He's still in touch with a couple of friends from the previous school, but basically he moved on.
Best decision we ever made.
I was in your shoes and given what you've discussed here, OP, I would heartily recommend moving schools if you can.

Surely your son kicked as a form of self defence?

He wasn't being left alone when asked & was being followed?

Why wasn't he believed until there was proof that he hadn't been hurting his bully?

Surely there was no proof either way?

The whole thing is appalling.

Would it help talking to the other parents,usually all sets of parents are called into school.I would move school.

@FreshFancyFrogglette

What would be helpful is a meeting with all of you, together. Rather than you hearing ds's version, and siding with him, and the other dc's parent hearing her version, and siding with her.. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle, and a well chaired meeting between the 4 of you, with teachers present, would soon highlight what's actually going on here. You are right that it's not OK, or normal, but something is a bit off with your dc's account, as it doesn't really make sense. why she would go after him, unless there is some family history or something? Sounds messy. Surprised the school aren't more eager to get it sorted, as it's really disruptive for everyone. Could understand if this was a 4 form entry primary, but it sounds like a small school, why are they too busy to respond all the time :s

I disagree with this.

My dds bully had a mum who was worse, and who flatly refused to believe that her dd was in the wrong, even given evidence to the contrary.
She was banned from school grounds, and we called the police on her (in a separate incident), because she screamed abuse in my dds face.

I would not willingly put my bullied child in this type of meeting unless I was 100% sure the other parent was reasonable.

Some Primary schools can be very lax over bullying. At my dcs primary school the supervision at break times was very lax, and my dd1 was bullied, by a vicious little girl who was both younger and smaller than her. If she retaliated at all, she was told how awful it was for a “big girl like her picking on a little girl. I actually witnessed some of the bullying, as my house overlooked the school, but when I went to see the HT or CT over it, they just refused to blame the other girl!

It came to a head one day, when the other girl started kicking dd1 and wouldn’t stop so dd2 stepped in and, sticking up for her sister, gave the bully a taste of her own medicine. I was then called into see the HT about the incident, who started saying that dd2 was bullying the bully!! I said to the HT that whilst I didn’t condone dd2 hitting the bully, I would not punish her, as he and CT had both been made aware of dd1 being continually bullied by this girl and had done nothing about it, so dd2 had taken things into her own hands and had stuck up for her sister. I pointed out that dd2 was over a year younger, and smaller than the girl, so surely the “big girl and little girl” should apply in the same way it had last time I had been to see him about dd1.

The good things were that the girl never bullied dd1 again and after the incident dd2 was never picked on at school.

I wouldn’t pull him out of school just yet.

I would follow some of the advice on this thread and contact the school really robustly.

Although your son is upset and embarrassed by his anger, and whilst I wouldn’t ever encourage a child to behave like that, it’s also possible that she may back off him now that he’s hurt her and that the bullying may stop...

I didnt move my ds I wish I had I really do he was hounded by a boy from nursery and to this day in high school nothing was done in primary until the head teacher changed as his mom worked at the school and was heavily involved with the school one day he punched one child kicked another and had my ds pinned in a corner screaming he was going to kill him the lunchtime staff were all now now silly boy calm down he wouldn't really hurt you (he has in the past) the new headteacher flipped his shit and suspended him lunchtime staff struggled without his mom working for three days and complained but he held firm staffing issues should not dictate punishment for this level of aggressive behaviour he behaved better in primary but has started on him again in secondary

I wish his mom would send him somewhere else to be honest I never thought she would send him there because it's not her closest school

It's frustrating and I'm considering moving area totally at some point (not because of this) leaving that fucking entitled piece of shit behind would be an absolute bonus

I think I would be knocking on the girls mums door by now.

The school are failing him massively OP

Gosh this sounds awful! I'm so sorry you're in this spot. If once you talk to the head you get the same old rubbish I think you'll be forced to move him. Even though it is not his fault in any way!

@Medex

I think I would be knocking on the girls mums door by now.

The school are failing him massively OP

Whatever you do....do NOT do this!

It's happening inside the school so use the mechanisms that are there in the school to deal with it.

Do not approach the other parents while this is being looked into.

I would just add that it really helps to write up complaints in letters like you have swallowed a safeguarding manual - it concentrates the mind like no other.

When my child was called Gay on the way to school by his bullies I described him as the victim of an "offensive slur" that constituted "hate crime".

when they pushed him over in the playground and ran off with his rucksack I said he had been "physically assaulted and robbed"

Describe it like you would an adult crime - it focuses minds

I would say your son has been subjected to a campaign of harassment and intimidation, of the quantity and duration that would constitute stalking in an adult environment.

Good luck - I hate the fact that bullying in some schools is tackled so ineffectively.

@LookItsMeAgain

I'd go back to the school today (if you can leave your son behind to be looked after by a relative or your DH that would be helpful) and I'd demand a meeting with the teacher and the Principal today. That way, when the children return after mid-term break they can start afresh.

1 - I would say that you've had a change of mind and you no longer consent to 'grief counselling' for your DS. If it is required, you will look into it outside of the scope of the school. You don't feel that the school can distinguish anger arising from grief with being bullied repeatedly and then being pushed past your limit, which is what happened yesterday.

2 - you have raised these issues with the school since the other pupil joined and repeatedly raised them and they ignored your concerns up to the point that the other pupil was struck/kicked.

3 - They have severely dropped the ball in relation to safeguarding your child and you want to go through the anti-bullying policy with them so that when the pupils return after mid-term, that a robust plan is put in place so that no further incidents occur.

4 - they have also dropped the ball in dealing properly and comprehensively with the other pupil and why they are doing what they are doing repeatedly to your son. While your interest is in preparing for the second part of term for your son to return to his friends and do so in a safe manner, the school have made mistakes where this other pupil is concerned too.

5 - while it might be hearsay, you clearly overheard the parent of the other pupil discuss with the class teacher in the corridor (where anyone else could have overheard too) and you heard "I know he has issues", so you'd like to get clarification about who said what to her as you did not give consent for your child to be the topic of local gossip.

6 - You want to have a follow up meeting two weeks after they return from mid-term break to discuss the situation, see if there are any improvements or issues that are concerning you at that point and take it from there.

That's what I would do.

This with bells on. Sounds to me the teacher is trying to cover their back for a) not getting back to you and b) failing to protect your child and c) discussing your child with another parent. Take none of it! I'm saying this as a former primary teacher - go nuclear. There's absolutely no excuse for this poor practice.

I hope you manage to sort this awful situation out. I would want answers as to why the teacher left the children alone knowing there was an issue between your ds and this girl. It sounds as if they are failing both your ds and the girl by allowing it to continue. I would also be very upset about the mother’s comment. It all reads like the school have decided your ds is to blame.

Ex school governor here. What a terrible school. Just to back up previous posters.

1. Spend the weekend doing a timeline, as accurately as possible. Brief and concise summary of what happened. If you don't know the day but know the week, put that.
2. Keep this as a live document.
3. Email the Head of the school or the Executive Head or whoever is in charge AND the Chair of Governors. Look on the school website for the Behaviour Policy (this is a legal requirement). Say in the email that there has been consistent bullying of your child and that you require a written statement on how this will be dealt with. Put the timeline as an attachment. Long emails don't get read. You may want to remind them that Governing bodies of maintained schools have a duty under section 175 of the Education Act 2002 requiring them to make arrangements to ensure that their functions are carried out with a view to safeguarding and promoting the welfare of children. The proprietors of Academies have a similar duty under paragraph 7 of Schedule 1 to the Education (Independent School Standards) (England) Regulations 2010. They must ensure that arrangements are made to safeguard and promote the welfare of pupils. Not doing this is against the law.
4. You need to also look at the school's Complaints Policy, which should be on the website. If it isn't, ask for it. Go through the procedure to complain about the school's response. You will have to follow the times specified in that policy, which will state how long the school has to respond and what options you have if they don't or you are unhappy with the response. Also ask for the bullying policy.
5. If you get nowhere then go to www.gov.uk/complain-about-school though you have to go through the school procedure first.
6. I would also let he elected representative for the relevant local authority know. Again, be concise in the email. They get sent lots of stuff. They cannot do anything until the school has had a chance to deal directly. This will probably be the County as it sounds like you are in a rural area. If you don't know your councillor then www.writetothem.com/ will show you who your councillors are.
7. DON'T waste your time talking to TAs or teachers. This is not their job to sort.
8. DON'T go after parents or other children.
9. DON'T rely on phone calls, chats in the playground.

Good luck with this and I hope it works out.

I know it wasn’t the right thing to do. But I do wonder if now your DS has kicked this girl she might actually have learnt her lesson and will leave him alone? It’s a hope at least.

I’m not sure what I’d advise. You have all my sympathy.

Do you think that he does have a bit of a temper/get overly upset at being taunted thereby making himself an easy target? The girl was clearly angling for a reaction and she got it. When I was at secondary school there was a boy that I knew who got very emotional if teased and then would lash out in sheet frustration. It wasn't nice to watch but a group of girls just didn't let up taunting him because they knew that they would always get a reaction. The fact that you went into the school and warned them that there was only a certain amount that he could take before lashing out means that the school has interpreted what you have said as him having a potential anger issue. It's a shame that the school haven't really addressed the other girl's behaviour, but they will also see another side to things when you are not there and it can be very difficult for teachers to know who to believe when they often don't witness the behaviour.

I agree with the PPs who advise you go in all guns blazing and don't give up until this is resolved. Make sure school know you will not rest until this is dealt with.

If you contact them persistently it will eventually be easier to deal with the bully than with you.

You’ve had some solid advice regarding the keeping of timelines, scheduling meeting and referencing the anti-bullying policy.

I’ve been in your position with DS bullied in exactly the same way: claims of hitting, destruction of property, stealing… I was terrified that DS would have to leave his school (new to yr7 at the time ). Awful experience, only stopped as eventually enough other pupils could swear DS hadn’t done those things, CCTV showed him in other places and cracks appeared in the stories. Finally, the other child had help for “auto elaboration” I think the school called it (I was less polite). The boys had been close friends, suffice to say they haven’t spoken in the last 5 years.

Sending hugs in a very unmumsnetty manner.

@wombatspoopcubes

I'm going to get lynched for saying this but if I'd have beaten up my bully just once it would have saved me years of being bullied. And in todays climate he'll probably get a sticker or award tthe week after for being good.

Or allowed to watch the ipad in a younger year group where they have "extra TAs" to keep an eye on them (these are the TAs that are paid to work as 1-1 for some sen kids not babysit a bully from the years above)

Another one who says that I would seriously consider moving schools. I haven't had to deal with this personally but I do have experience of small rural schools and know of children that have moved - even in Y6 - due to similar issues. Assuming a relatively close community then your DS won't lose contact with his current friends and they will all meet up again in Y7.

Sorry, had the dreaded food shop to do. Just caught up on the comments/advice and calmed myself a bit. As expected, no word from the HM! So I'm going to draft an email outlining my concerns and queries and outlining what I expect from the school regards a plan for when the children go back after half term. I will say that I give consent for the referral for grief counselling but I will make it very clear that this outburst has nothing to do with my dad passing however I wish to support them if they feel that it will help him in ways not related to this ongoing incident. I am also going to question what I inadvertently overheard the other parent say because that has really bothered me. At the time I didn't know they were talking about ds until the teacher left her and came straight to me asking to talk. Even if ds did have issues, is it not breaking confidentiality to discuss him with the other parent? If she has been led to believe he has issues, should this not be communicated to me, with him being my son and all? Because I've not had anyone from the school telling me my ds has issues so why is the other parent under that impression?

@Hugoslavia my son has what I would say is a "normal" temper for a near 10 year old. Actually, given this has been ongoing for quite some time, I would say he has mastered his anger management techniques as this is the first time he has snapped. He has never, ever, laid a hand on any other child before. Also, even if he did have a temper and snap early, does that make it OK for this child to continually goad him to provoke a reaction? To my mind, not that I would ever voice it on the outside world because I am not that type of person, surely they have got what they deserved then? They have goaded for a reaction and that is what they have got, except that reaction hurt them, is that right?

I have asked ds if there was another adult in the room when his teacher left and all this happened. He said the TA was sat at a desk around the corner of the room, she was the 1-to-1 for a child with SEN so was with that child (so not paying any attention to the rest of the class?).

Also, I would never go after the parents as that is just not my style. I'm of the belief that it happens in school so it's a school issue to sort. But it needs to be sorted properly.

Keep a paper trail. Put it all in writing and insist on a written response. Follow up with any face to face meeting with a summary of what is said.

They are much more likely to be careful of what they do and say if it’s all written down.

I’d email the head now with a timeline of events and ask for a response in writing. Even tell them that you will be contacting the Local Authority if things aren’t concluded satisfactorily. Keep emotion out of the email. Stick to facts.

They need to know you are serious.

Oh and copy the governors, or at least ask for contact details for the governors.