Young babies in nursery

[MadameHomais]

I have been reading another thread about a six month old in nursery for around 12 hours a day.
I must admit that I am very uninformed and I didn’t realise young babies could be left at nursery for such long hours.
It made me wonder how do the nurseries manage such young babies?
I look after my ten month old grandson 5 days a week, 10 am until 5 pm and I think that is a long time for him to be away from his parents, but needs must.
I collect his cousins from school three days a week and on those days I am in bed by 8.30 pm! I am a light weight now I am in my late fifties.
I do enjoy childcare though.
I do realise how fortunate I was with my own four children. I had help from my mother in law and a sympathetic employer. I don’t recall any other friends having to use nurseries for such long hours 30 plus years ago.
I am so sorry that we live in a society where, sometimes, both parents have to return to work when their children are so young.

@QforCucumber do what you think is best for your family.
But nursery nurses have basic training. They mainly learn through experience. Some are good, some not so good. And no I don't think they take better care of babies than a loving caring mum, dad or another relative.
Some relatives you would not leave your baby with. But the difference with good relatives is that they can truly love the baby.
I have been a childcare worker. You do kind of love some of the kids, but you cant properly love them. Because they can walk out of your life at short notice and you never see them again. So you have to protect yourself. And being honest, most parents don't like you to have too close a relationship. It is why many choose a nursery rather than a childminder.

@5thnonblonde age-specific activities for a baby? Do you understand how easy that is to plan? A clapping game that you do again and again and again. A rattle, a play mat.
Even for toddlers everyday stuff can be fascinating. Posting a letter. Playing in a tub of food dyed water, doing funny walks on the way to the shops. Little kids activities are very easy. The challenge is that unless it is a rhyme or kids song that you are totally fed up of and they want to hear a thousand times, then most of them can only last a very short time before moving into the next thing.

@julieca so you don’t think toddlers should be in nursery either? Realistically that means only families with a senior professional can have a child and not have to live in rented accommodation. No single parents could afford to even rent- they’d be dependent on the state to house them?

Yawn.

My DD was at nursery four days a week from 8.15am to around 5.15pm. Never once did I feel any bit of guilt about it. It was great for her.

Mine didn't go until they were 3. Even then I felt bad. I don't work though. I think it's good to have a balance of both.

Mine went pt from four and five months respectively. We had zero family help, and certainly no one willing to give up most of their week to look after our DC for us as you seem willing to do. Which i most certainly would not have allowed anyway for fear of being massively beholden.
I suspect to your horror I didn't even have to return to work. I was just bored silly at home and needed time away from young DC!
They're now 18 and 16 and never a seconds regret. We all bonded well enough, owe nobody anything and my pension looks great.

I think a big problem is that child development isn't taught in school as standard. It should be for all pupils. When you realise how children's brains develop, how they form attachments and the importance of a primary caregiver to their development it's eye-opening.

A twelve hour day at nursery means their primary caregiver becomes their key worker not a parent. This can be really problematic if the nursery has a high turnover of staff etc.

As you say, for some people needs must. But the general expectation that kids should go to nursery and parents back to work, is based on what is good for the economy, not what is good for children and babies. It would be good if this was more widely acknowledged.

20 years ago when dd was born maternity leave was 29 weeks so yes babies went into nursery at 6 months. My friends used one from 3 months due to work. It allows babies from 6 weeks here

@WheelieBinPrincess

Well, bully for you.

Although I’m assuming this must be another grandchild since you don’t get on with your son and daughter in law?

We live away from our families, we have no help. I don’t even know who I’ll put on an emergency contact when the time comes. DS will go to nursery at 10 months so I can go back to work. The real kicker? I’m a nanny!! But I can’t afford to stay at home to look after my own baby, I have to put him in childcare so I can go and look after someone else’s, because we can’t rely on just DH’s salary and I earn double per month than what nursery costs. It’s fucking madness.

Couldn't you become a childminder instead? Then you could care for your own dc too?

@velvetstar

I think a big problem is that child development isn't taught in school as standard. It should be for all pupils. When you realise how children's brains develop, how they form attachments and the importance of a primary caregiver to their development it's eye-opening.

A twelve hour day at nursery means their primary caregiver becomes their key worker not a parent. This can be really problematic if the nursery has a high turnover of staff etc.

As you say, for some people needs must. But the general expectation that kids should go to nursery and parents back to work, is based on what is good for the economy, not what is good for children and babies. It would be good if this was more widely acknowledged.

Which is why I chose a CM and her father, who could work compressed hours.

A twelve hour day at nursery means their primary caregiver becomes their key worker not a parent. This can be really problematic if the nursery has a high turnover of staff etc.

What's your evidence for this?

Nobody is talking about a child being im nursery for 12 hours per day, 7 days per week. It has been pointed out several times that the OP referred to a situation where a child was in nursery for 3 long days then had 4 days per week with her parents,

Lots of people deliberately choose a nursery without a high turnover of staff. The staff become very important people in the children's lives and remain so long after nursery, as our nannies have too.

Is your objection to shit nurseries? If so I agree, so let's vote for a Government that will fund them properly.

If your objection is to nurseries in general then I am afraid you have failed to make a convincing argument.

Also so boring reading people saying that working mothers are being "defensive". Of course they will post to defend thenselves when attacked for doing what is necessary to care for their children. If anything posting a thread like this - and many of the comments that followed - are defensive of the idea that women should give up work and financial independence the moment they have children.

I am so thankful every day - for my children's sake - that I did not do that.

A twelve hour day at nursery means their primary caregiver becomes their key worker not a parent. This can be really problematic if the nursery has a high turnover of staff etc

You think a child who spends a few days per week at nursery can't understand that their mummy and daddy are their primary carers and have a different attachment to them than to nursery staff?

Bloody hell.

Which planet do you live on?

@TheEvilPea

A twelve hour day at nursery means their primary caregiver becomes their key worker not a parent. This can be really problematic if the nursery has a high turnover of staff etc.

What's your evidence for this?

Nobody is talking about a child being im nursery for 12 hours per day, 7 days per week. It has been pointed out several times that the OP referred to a situation where a child was in nursery for 3 long days then had 4 days per week with her parents,

Lots of people deliberately choose a nursery without a high turnover of staff. The staff become very important people in the children's lives and remain so long after nursery, as our nannies have too.

Is your objection to shit nurseries? If so I agree, so let's vote for a Government that will fund them properly.

If your objection is to nurseries in general then I am afraid you have failed to make a convincing argument.

Also so boring reading people saying that working mothers are being "defensive". Of course they will post to defend thenselves when attacked for doing what is necessary to care for their children. If anything posting a thread like this - and many of the comments that followed - are defensive of the idea that women should give up work and financial independence the moment they have children.

I am so thankful every day - for my children's sake - that I did not do that.

I agree with all of this.

I'm not sorry. My three have been in full-time childcare since they were 6 months old. They're intelligent, caring and well rounded individuals. Also when starting school they always seemed so much further ahead than the kids that have just been with grandparents or parents, in my opinion.

@5thnonblonde There is a lot of research to show that by age 3 children start to benefit from a nursery. They need other kids to play with and enjoy messy play that not all parents do at home.
I don't think babies come to any harm in a nursery. But I certainly don't think they benefit.

But some mothers/parents do. And their needs are just as important.

Sure its childcare so you can work.

I wanted my child to be a pleasure and not a chore for her grandparents.

Nursery enabled everything: me having a job which included pension, NI etc, education for DD and no burden or expectations on the grandparents

@velvetstar that is poor application of the child development you claim should be taught to everyone.

My DC were separated from me at 9m and 3m for 14 hour days (I've shared the circumstances that made that necessary earlier in the thread). Admittedly because I worked long shifts it was less days a week. Eldest went to nursery and had the same key worker until he was moved to the toddler room and then had the same key worker until we left. He is very securely attached to me as his primary caregiver. He's 4.5 now and can happily skip off in to school and make friends very easily and he is a very happy and confident little boy because he absolutely without a doubt knows that mummy will be there to pick him up at 3pm or will send someone she trusts to get him. When he was a baby he would wait up for me to get home then breastfeed 4 times a night then sleep with me and we were together every second of every day that I wasn't working. For the record he remains pretty obsessed with me and his favourite thing to do in the world is go out for a coffee and cake with me and he would not be able to tell you any of his nursery workers names or never brings up any memories of nursery. I do find it pretty offensive that you suggest that parents who don't have the means to be at home, or that don't have the option of free family care or that need to be at work for theof preservation of their own mental health are in someway not the primary caregivers of their children. That's pretty mumshaming.

@MadameHomais

Please don’t feel sorry for us, we are a very happy family thank you.

@BlueThursday

I wanted my child to be a pleasure and not a chore for her grandparents.

Nursery enabled everything: me having a job which included pension, NI etc, education for DD and no burden or expectations on the grandparents

I'm not criticising nurseries or people who send their children, but lots of people make comments like this about the fact my DC's grandparents want to spend two days a week with her. They have an incredible bond with their grandchild and want to spend more time with her - they often visit at weekends and proactively suggest days out etc. My DC has a wonderful time with her grandparents walking the dogs, collecting eggs from the chickens, exploring the garden and playing. But somehow this is exploitative or a chore and my DC would be better off in a nursery than with grandparents who adore her.

I've also made compromises to spend two days a week (excluding weekends) with my DC. My husband works 80% to spend one week day with his child. I know not all families can or want to do this, but families can want to spend time with children without it being some terrible burden.

@Bbq1 not really no. I have no desire to start up a childcare business in a saturated area from our two bed flat.

@MissEDashwood19 If grandparents are well enough and not a problem in terms of how they treat children, I do think children can really benefit from spending time with their grandchildren regularly without the parents there.

MissE My nephews had a similar relationship with GP when they were little. All very bonding at the time. But the cutesy little DC grew and naturally tried to pull away, friends became more important, out of school and weekend activities began. Still, the GP continued to try and involve themselves in everything, pushing themselves into every aspect of their lives. Unable to accept they weren't as needed, Weren't first choice, lots of time to fill.
By their teens there was no special GP relationship, no novelty of seeing them, just resentment and over familiarity at their constant input and presence. And in time, frustration from my SIL too, who felt tied and at the beck and call of her parents and so beholden for all the earlier free childcare. Although it was originally done out of love, make no mistake that 'payback' was expected as they aged.
I think it's really important for even young DC to learn to be away from their parents. And if those of us aren't lucky enough to have family that want to ever help out, then we have to pay others.

We do it for the same reason your child and their partner does, to earn money to pay the bills and keep a roof over our heads. We just don’t have the luxury of local parents or family to help out with the childcare. I’d also worry about being a burden on my parents and about them planning their retirement around my little one when they have raised their family and should be able to enjoy themselves