Why did Harry Potter become so popular?

[KindergartenKop]

I'm not a huge fan personally, but I think they're quite well written. I'm not sure they deserve all the hype though. So why did they become so popular?

[quote HowardNoir]@NeonTetras Non-transphobes disagree.[/quote]
What has JKR ever said that's transphobic? I'm assuming that's your insinuation.

:29Clymene

HowardNoir

@NeonTetras

Non-transphobes disagree.

What has JKR ever said that's transphobic? I'm assuming that's your insinuation.

Yes, please quote whatever you have in mind. I think some of the books' popularity lay in their openness to a multi-cultural Britain, and in their feminist perspectives. Trans issues weren't much on the radar when JKR wrote. But her values come across as liberal and inclusive .

I don’t think JKR is transphobic and I admire her for stating her views so publicly.

But having said that, her characterisation is piss poor. Cho Chang? Seamus Finngean? Not to mention the little plot-drops of ‘Dumbledore is gay!’ ‘Hermione is black!’ which, if she’d made explicit in the books, would have done so much good.

@Pumperthepumper

I don’t think JKR is transphobic and I admire her for stating her views so publicly.

But having said that, her characterisation is piss poor. Cho Chang? Seamus Finngean? Not to mention the little plot-drops of ‘Dumbledore is gay!’ ‘Hermione is black!’ which, if she’d made explicit in the books, would have done so much good.

Yes, agree some of the characterisation is ham-fisted. Books were of their time but at the old-fashioned end of the spectrum when she started to write. Would have been unusual to make Dumbledore openly gay from book 1 in a children's book at that time. That mixed age range business that made the books so popular makes dealing with likely realities of mixed-sex boarding tricky too.

Hermione is black was v obviously in defence of Cursed Child actress and seemed artificial but well meant.

@RampantIvy

In some ways very bad writing

Please can you give an example of very bad writing from one of the books @Etinoxaurus.

I don't have an English literature degree, and don't remember thinking that any of them were badly written.

Some of the snobbery on this thread is breathtaking. Do these posters only read the classics?

Here you go. Not Harry Potter, but one of her more recent books (where the prose style is actually a little better).

But the thing is, it doesn’t matter. I think most people agree she writes poor prose, but excellent characters and story telling. A writer doesn’t have to have it all, but it is a shame the editing of the latter books wasn’t better.

@RampantIvy

In some ways very bad writing

Please can you give an example of very bad writing from one of the books @Etinoxaurus.

I don't have an English literature degree, and don't remember thinking that any of them were badly written.

Some of the snobbery on this thread is breathtaking. Do these posters only read the classics?

Agreed.

The only thing that annoyed me was the repetitive use of the word thunderstruck.

When I read them as an adult I was so impressed by the storytelling.

Not Harry Potter, but one of her more recent books (where the prose style is actually a little better).

But the thing is, it doesn’t matter. I think most people agree she writes poor prose, but excellent characters and story telling. A writer doesn’t have to have it all, but it is a shame the editing of the latter books wasn’t better

You link to amindformadness.com/2017/12/prose-j-k-rowling/

(Sorry, can't quote with link)

I don't think JKR is a brilliant prose stylist, but that blogger is talking nonsense with her "proof". She has half understood a few of the stylistic "rules" US undergrads learn in comp class. Passive voice (which she doesn't identify correctly) and figurative usage are perfectly normal and acceptable writing tools. The kind of tedious, mostly American critique where you must never use an adverb and nobody can just say anything - must exclaim! / extrapolate! / ejaculate! has its uses in reviewing your own prose for clarity and vigour.

But these aren't rules. JKR's prose clearly does the job. People read it, avidly.

JKR's prose clearly does the job. People read it, avidly.

Yup . That’s pretty much what I said too.

Although I still find much of it jarring and think it could have been much better edited. But it does the job well enough. It’s certainly not great though.

OMG I can't believe someone used a US blogger who has self-published two novels to evidence JKR's poor writing style.

A man who starts his critique by hoping that JKR will admit her success is mostly luck and is so proud of the following sentence 'It’s much more likely that she just got better as a writer as she wrote more.' that he put it in bold.

I'm dying

@LooksGood

Not Harry Potter, but one of her more recent books (where the prose style is actually a little better).

But the thing is, it doesn’t matter. I think most people agree she writes poor prose, but excellent characters and story telling. A writer doesn’t have to have it all, but it is a shame the editing of the latter books wasn’t better

You link to amindformadness.com/2017/12/prose-j-k-rowling/

(Sorry, can't quote with link)

I don't think JKR is a brilliant prose stylist, but that blogger is talking nonsense with her "proof". She has half understood a few of the stylistic "rules" US undergrads learn in comp class. Passive voice (which she doesn't identify correctly) and figurative usage are perfectly normal and acceptable writing tools. The kind of tedious, mostly American critique where you must never use an adverb and nobody can just say anything - must exclaim! / extrapolate! / ejaculate! has its uses in reviewing your own prose for clarity and vigour.

But these aren't rules. JKR's prose clearly does the job. People read it, avidly.

Blogger also has no notion of standard stylistic differences in English and US use of tenses, or different conventions with commas. Her corrected versions aren't necessarily clearer. Minimum words to convey essential info is fine for report writing. Colour and rhythm matter in fiction.

She hopes JKR will acknowledge that her success is mostly down to luck because she's a poor writer. The arrogance

No idea. I think it's a pile of shit personally.

It's a bloke @LooksGood. Matt from Connecticut.

I have observed that JKR gets a lot more grief than successful male authors. Weird that.

@LastStarfighter

JKR's prose clearly does the job. People read it, avidly.

Yup . That’s pretty much what I said too.

Although I still find much of it jarring and think it could have been much better edited. But it does the job well enough. It’s certainly not great though.

I agree but - I think JKR reads unusually well aloud, because her sentences aren't too dense.

There are certainly clunkers that could have been weeded out.

"Things are getting serious", said Sirius

‘that blogger is talking nonsense with her "proof". She has half understood a few of the stylistic "rules" US undergrads learn in comp class. Passive voice (which she doesn't identify correctly) and figurative usage are perfectly normal and acceptable writing tools.’

This!
The arrogance of that blogger. Their alternative versions might read more sharply as standalone sentences but they don’t work better in the context of the story.
Robin is in a mess without realising it at the start of the series, about to marry the wrong man for the wrong reasons. The circumlocutions of the writing at that point mirror the internal state in which she is trying to convince herself of something. But JKR is too good a writer to say flat out ‘this is the wrong man for her’, she reveals it gradually. She is perfectly capable of writing with clarity when she needs to but that passage is drawing us into Robin’s muddled head.

It was the use of the word 'gotten' in the first chapter of the first book that made me eye roll and stop reading

@Clymene

It's a bloke *@LooksGood*. Matt from Connecticut.

I have observed that JKR gets a lot more grief than successful male authors. Weird that.

Sorry I missed that. Not sure why.

Still not a sensible critique. But now less at the arrogance!

Btw I don’t think ‘most people agree she writes poor prose’. There’s a difference between thinking her prose is actually poor and that it is not the thing that explains her success.

@Pythonista

It was the use of the word 'gotten' in the first chapter of the first book that made me eye roll and stop reading

Were you perchance reading the US version?

@TheCountessofFitzdotterel

Btw I don’t think ‘most people agree she writes poor prose’. There’s a difference between thinking her prose is actually poor and that it is not the thing that explains her success.

Yes, absolutely - great point.

@Pythonista

It was the use of the word 'gotten' in the first chapter of the first book that made me eye roll and stop reading

I've just done a search on my kindle (UK) version, and there is no 'gotten' in the whole book.

It was the use of the word 'gotten' in the first chapter of the first book that made me eye roll and stop reading

I’m pretty sure “gotten” is acceptable in Scottish English in some contexts. It was originally an English word and not an Americanism after all. Scots and Scottish English can be a bit archaic and word guides for “British” English tend to ignore Scottish pronunciations and usages. Similarly, every English person will tell you the past of “jump” is “jumped” and that “jamp” is an Americanism, despite “jamp” being acceptable in Scots.

JKR might have picked up “gotten” while living in Scotland. It would be strange for her to use an Americanism before the internet was so widespread and considering that she doesn’t seem to have spent much time in America prior to writing HP1.

I don't know - it was an ebook sample.

I don't get why adults read it - even allowing for the US version, it's a children's book.

And how did they cast three child actors who couldn't act?

Loads of American editions around - sure they'll have "gotten".

Love Jamp Never heard that before ...

And how did they cast three child actors who couldn't act?

Not really relevant to why people enjoy the books.

Oh and I read it and enjoyed it as a child… now I’m an adult! I haven’t read it as an adult, but think I will now off the back of this thread!