When does the OW stop being the OW?

[Worldwide2]

Hello all

Due to a couple of other threads regarding affairs with married men and men creating second family's with the 'ow'. It has got me thinking when does everything get forgotten and forgiven? As in when does the OW stop being referred to as the OW and is accepted as exes wife/girlfriend. Is it normal to get over such betrayal and move on without feeling bitter or is hard to not harbour a feeling of resentment for a long time towards them?
When you hear someone being referred to as the OW after a number of years you kind of thing ok let go now it's time to move on but is it so simple actually?
I'm not condoning affairs at all but I do know of people who were desperately unhappy with their then spouse had affairs and are now very happy with the other person. Doesn't everyone deserve to be happy or not when it comes off the back of someone else's happiness? I'd like to hear other peoples thoughts on this without it turning into a bun fight of course.

Also this isn't just affairs between married men and women it goes for married women too.

[quote Worldwide2]@doyoulikeowls this I think is part of moving on isn't it? Accepting the OW is now gf/wife no longer the OW but it seems some people will still refer her to OW[/quote]
Yes, I can see that. I think for me divorce is when the OW is no longer the OW.

Why would people think you were the other woman if you were never the other woman why would you comment on a thread about ow saying that you were never the ow? Pp was clearly the ow

@pommepommefrites

Why would people think you were the other woman if you were never the other woman why would you comment on a thread about ow saying that you were never the ow? Pp was clearly the ow

People have different experiences. They may not have been the OW but have seen close friends or family go through stuff.

@DoYouLikeOwls

I'm a bit confused to be honest. Who is calling the woman the OW? Surely if you have been split up from your ex a few years and you still refer to his wife he cheated on you with as the OW it's a bit odd. Surely she is your ex's wife. Yes you may refer her to as the fucking wankers new wife but how would she be the OW?

Yes, I think there is only an Other Woman when there are two women involved. Once there is only one, there just a wife or girlfriend and an ex. Regardless of how the relationship started or is regarded.

I wish people would stop using the word "bitter". It's really insulting to people like me whose lives have been wrecked by affairs. It's perfectly ok and indeed normal to be angry about it. I don't think I'll ever get over the hell my ex and OW put us through. I imagine a part of me will always feel shit about it. I am raging at the damage they have done to my little boy, like he was inconvenient rubbish.

It's perfectly ok to leave a marriage. What is not ok is the sneaking, lying, gaslighting and torture that is so often inflicted on the wife who then has to put up with being described as "batshit" to anybody who will listen to justify the position of husband and OW. None of that is ok and it causes injury, sometimes beyond repair.

In my case, I'm pretty certain OW is unwelcome and hasn't been made part of the family. It's been 8 years. However, she has behaved like an utter cunt, particularly towards my son and to me when I was diagnosed with cancer last year. She has caused unimaginable hurt to so many people. You reap what you sow I guess 🤷🏻‍♀️

I can't disagree that somebody dwelling for 30 years is desperately sad and I feel deeply sorry for her. I do, however, understand how that can happen.

@Namechangeapologies

I also think one of the really painful things for me from my ex H cheating on my and leaving me (and our kids) was not just the deception but the - what felt like really very calculated - way he re wrote history after leaving - he cheated and he left me and yet after he left he was just incredibly cruel and mean to me.

In the immediate aftermath I thought "but I have not done anything to make you angry with me" and yet he was, incredibly angry with me (and still is for some reason). Plus the projection - for example - he left the family home and me with the kids and then said on multiple occasions I was preventing him see our kids - rubbish, he has seen our kids exactly when he wants and for as long as he says he wants from the day he walked out.

And he has never ever "admitted it" to me. I am not sure that him turning round and saying "yes I have been a shit, I have had an affair and now I am leaving you" would have necessarily made me feel better, but it would have helped not to have been gas lit and just to have had the feeling that he respected me enough to own and and admit to what he had done. He never did that, and that leads to massive amount of damage.

And the other woman - I have only spoken to her once - I cannot remember what it was about now (i only met her once) but I remember her saying really sarcastically to me "Good for you" - in the most sarcastic voice. Horrible.

I completely agree with this. It happened to me too in much the same way and it sends you over the edge

Hmm difficult.
I think probably never for the wronged party
For children it might depend how old they were etc.

My FIL left MIL for his OW over 20 years ago after 40yrs of marriage. He did not remarry but they have been together all that time and live together
My DH and his siblings were adults at the time

MIL never met anyone else nor appeared to want to. She definitely still regards FIL partner as the OW and hell will freeze over before she forgives her. She will see him on his own now and appears to have forgiven him a bit but she has never met the partner to my knowledge and she maintains a complete hatred of her to this day.

For the rest of the family it creates a dilemma
We don't dislike FIL partner as a person in herself and we invite her over with him, get her a Christmas present etc but we don't have them to stay as DH always said he would find that really weird
We acknowledge she is his long term partner but yes she will always be OW as well. That is their history that you can't erase. Those are choices they both made and have to own.
We have stopped punishing her for it but it makes family events such as weddings and funerals really hard as MIL will refuse to go if partner invited and FIL will refuse if partner not invited.
I think they need to be grown ups about it at this point and not make their kids lives harder but I don't require MIL to forgive the unforgivable

So it's tough really but tbh I do think that whilst I will be polite after a lot of water is under the bridge in my mind once the OW always the OW.

I am another OW who actually wasnt the OW but will probably be labelled as such until the day the ex dies.

I never had an affair with her husband, we were (and still are)
friends, but she needed someone to blame for her marriage breaking up that wasnt her drunkenly attacking her husband in public (again) and there I was, ready made. Ironically he is still single and she is engaged to her latest, despite her and my friend not being divorced yet, but I am the bitch that broke their marriage......

My dad cheated on my mum 30 years ago and moved in with his other woman. They broke up twenty years ago and she is still the other woman to me and to anyone else.

Basically, I feel that these people who were so desperately unhappy in their marriages that they simply had to find happiness in the arms of another could have ended their relationships FIRST. That way, the spouse only has the pain of being left to handle and not the pain of being reviewed and considered the poorer option

@DoYouLikeOwls

I'm a bit confused to be honest. Who is calling the woman the OW? Surely if you have been split up from your ex a few years and you still refer to his wife he cheated on you with as the OW it's a bit odd. Surely she is your ex's wife. Yes you may refer her to as the fucking wankers new wife but how would she be the OW?

Depends on the context, doesn't it? If I was describing how they got together, it would be relevant to describe her as his mistress, as in "My exh cheated on me with another woman, and he then went on to marry her". It's a factual means of explaining what happened. I'd then also describe her as my ex's new wife, or my ex's wife, but in some circumstances "the other woman" might still be necessary to explain something. OP herself uses the term "OW" in this thread for that same reason.

Similarly, my parents each remarried 40-odd years ago, but I would still describe their partners as their second husband / second wife when relevant, e.g. when talking about how they divorced and remarried, or to explain why I am talking about "my dad's wife". It doesn't mean I think of their marriage as second best or anything.

My ex-neighbour's husband went off with another woman, and they are still together years later; the neighbour has divorced him. I think of his girlfriend as the other woman as that's her role in their story. It doesn't mean I need to get over their affair or that I am bitter.

it does seem most of the blame and hate is aimed at the OW more so than the man
Some people are angrier with the OW, some are angrier with their ex. Do you think we should all support the sisterhood? Why does it interest you?

What interests me is the tendency you often see on MN to paint a picture of the cheated-on partner as irrational, bitter, unforgiving or unable to get over it. I can get why a cheating couple would jump on that idea, obviously - it is human nature - but why would an outsider who'd never had an affair be so fascinated?

I think the capacity to cheat and deceive is a character trait that people carry throughout their lives. Other people see it and are right to be wary of those people and to regard them as fundamentally untrustworthy, in a broader sense.

Certainly that's been my life experience of people who have based relationships on affairs. That they are more selfish than other people and they will do other secretive, deceptive things. It's who they are.

Open, honest people, who know themselves well, are better at dealing with problems in their relationships by facing them and talking, or acting appropriately. Secrecy goes hand in hand with inadequacy.

@TheFormidableMrsC

I don't think everyone who has been cheated on and left are 'bitter'. I agree you can very much dislike someone for what they did to you and still be happy. I also don't think if someone hasnt found someone else they haven't 'moved on'. I only think someone is bitter when they haven't clearly moved on by still bringing ex dp/ow up and wallowing in their life being wrecked. I think those people are bitter and I find it really sad tbh. I agree the term bitter is always thrown usually at the ex wife at all times.

@lottiegarbanzo So I take it you dont think people have the capacity to change? That people can't become better people and would never do x, y, z like they did 10 years ago.
I disagree I think people very much can change grow and be different to how they were in another time in their life. I definitely think you can learn from previous experiences in your life and never want to repeat them.

Hmm difficult. I think probably never for the wronged party

When my exh cheated I never referred to her as the OW. I used a few choice expletives, but never OW. It was a short lived fling, but had they married I'd have referred to her as my exh wife! Because that's what she'd be! It doesn't mean I hurt less than anyone else, I just can't see the point of constantly opening up old wounds. The only person you hurt is yourself.

I think people can change @Worldwide2 but that it's very hard work and that very, very few people do it.

Most people don't actually want to change their personalities. Most people regard their personalities as immutable. Most people quite like themselves as they are, antisocial traits and all. Familiarity is comfortable and comforting.

I think people can learn a bit about what behaviours work and don't, to achieve what they want, so can change their tactics. That's not the same thing at all as challenging their own personalities or their fundamental beliefs (about who and what is important and what their 'rights' and expectations are).

My experience is that selfish and ruthless people are always those things, aged 25, 35, 55 and 75. It works for them and it is who they are.

Self-deceptive people lack the self-awareness to recognise that there's a problem and that they are at its centre.

In order to change, people have to want to change, which starts with recognising that there's a problem and that it is within themselves. As with alcoholics, gamblers, drug abusers, domestic abusers, also with selfish, untrustworthy cheats. With the latter, there isn't often the same 'rock bottom' that forces change, because the tactics work for the selfish person. The fall out hits other people.

[quote Worldwide2]@TheFormidableMrsC

I don't think everyone who has been cheated on and left are 'bitter'. I agree you can very much dislike someone for what they did to you and still be happy. I also don't think if someone hasnt found someone else they haven't 'moved on'. I only think someone is bitter when they haven't clearly moved on by still bringing ex dp/ow up and wallowing in their life being wrecked. I think those people are bitter and I find it really sad tbh. I agree the term bitter is always thrown usually at the ex wife at all times.[/quote]
I don't think you have the right to describe anybody as "bitter". It's a nasty word. Unless you have experienced something like this or have walked a mile in their shoes, you have no idea how utterly life changing experiences like this are for some.

So I would argue that people who have the potential to cheat, are that way because of a combination of their personality and moral framework. Those conditions exists before they cheat and are what makes cheating possible for them.

Other personalities and moral frameworks result in people who will not cheat, for example who regard cheating as abhorrent, degrading and destructive, as a prior position. Some people are potential cheats, some people are not.

So the more interesting question might be 'when does a cheat become someone capable of cheating' and the answers to that will go back into the person's childhood, upbringing, personal and moral influences.

Can someone capable of cheating turn themselves into someone who isn't capable of doing so? Maybe but that's a very different question from whether someone who has cheated once will actually do it again.

Following on from that, a really useful question to be able to answer would be 'how can you identify whether or not someone has the potential to cheat, before getting into a relationship with them?'

...and yes, I do think it's possible to answer that question, if often very difficult in individual cases and in the moment, because the signs are usually there, in the person's personality and morality, long before any cheating actually happens. The question is what signs to look out for.

@pommepommefrites

Why would people think you were the other woman if you were never the other woman why would you comment on a thread about ow saying that you were never the ow? Pp was clearly the ow

If you are referring to me ?? It was because even though I met him years later, the ex wife wanted someone to blame for the breakdown of their marriage and I was the easy target. I know I am called names and I find it offensive since I am no adulterer and would not have broken anyone's marriage up no way.

It is easy to call people names isn't it

Fundamentally everyone has the potential to be tempted into any number of destructive behaviours. It’s probably more helpful to consider if they’ve got the potential to honour promises, exert restraint, have perspective on a situation. Limerance is extremely powerful, the effects in the brain aren’t unlike that of addiction. In hindsight I should gave seen that while ExH wasn’t an alcoholic he still can’t resist one extra round, or if there are sweets or cakes about he really can’t say no. He’s very much one for the pleasures of the flesh...

I only think someone is bitter when they haven't clearly moved on by still bringing ex dp/ow up and wallowing in their life being wrecked. I think those people are bitter and I find it really sad tbh
I think it's human nature to judge people for things, often things that have nothing to do with you, or that you don't understand. We all do it.

Cynically she probably stops being the OW when he gets a new one.

Don't they say when a man marries his mistress it creates a vacancy...

Never. They are always one part of a couple,that destroyed someone else's life, knowingly and happily and chose to take part in a deceitful relationship as they couldn't keep it in their pants until the other party had the decency to finish with their partner. And nope. Never been in this situation, but would always think of them as the other woman as long as I knew them

@SD1978 Completely disagree with you. My exDH cheating on me did not destroy my life at all, thanks.