Why is no-one mentioning violent pornography and Wayne Couzans?

[deadleaves]

I've been listening to the 'how did this happen' coverage and no-one is offering up as part of the explanation that he was a big fan of 'brutal pornography.'

If men wank off to women being brutalised that is inevitably going to lead to some of those men going to act out the violent fantasies which porn has now hardwired into their neural pathways as arousing.

If blatantly violent racist films were mainstream no-one would be surprised that racism increased, and I am sure all commentators would feel comfortable making this point.

But when sexualised violence against women in mainstream why are we pretending this isn't one of the contributory factors to brutal crimes like this?

Completely agree.

Agree. But maybe it's because we live in a very pro-porn culture? And critics are normally shot down really quickly.

Good point.

I used to hitchhike all the time in the 70s and early 80s. Alone or with friends. We all did it and never encountered any problem.

Of course there were some women who were attacked and even killed but nothing like we see today.

Men were not viewed as monsters but as our protectors and the conclusion that I have come to that violent porn is around much more nowadays and easily available.

Have they published evidence that he was a user of violent porn?

Because if not then the use of violent porn is just speculation. Truth is that while the use of violent porn needs to be discussed in broader terms, some people just are depraved, and haven’t necessarily been led to it.

There have always been men who have brutally raped and murdered women, violent porn should be eradicated regardless, but even if it was, there will still be depraved sick bastards out there capable of committing these types of crimes.

Agree. Also saw today criminologists are saying they don’t think it is his first offence - I thought that at the time but they are openly saying it- that it was too confident and well carried out - I find her torture, rape and kidnap too horrible to comprehend the fact that he might have done it before I just can’t go there.

The fact the police laughed and nicknamed him the rapist and did nothing. The fact the press and others were quick to shout ‘the wife must have known’ and the fact he brought the land and took his children and family there knowing what he had done metres away. Violence against women is in our phones, computers, history, it is a bacteria and mould growing over our society and it just seen as normal and to be expected is just depressing on every level - men need to change

Of course there were some women who were attacked and even killed but nothing like we see today. that’s not actually true. The rate of murders and assaults hasn’t actually increased, what has increased is our access to knowledge of those attacks, through social media, rolling news etc.

Similar to child abductions. People will say that more children are being abducted now but that’s not actually true.

100%. CEASE (Centre to End All Sexual Exploitation) have shared some content around this today and have some actions on their social media and website that you can take: cease.org.uk

Agree too. I loathe the pro porn culture. Extremes become normalised. Children, teens and adults can be exposed to it in a way that has never happened before and the consequences of my own children being in this guinea pig generation terrify me.

Have they published evidence that he was a user of violent porn?

Yes, it was mentioned by the judge yesterday. Reported here: twitter.com/totalcrime/status/1443223585665994760?s=21

Because apparently, “everyone”, including a great deal of women on MN think porn is totally harmless. Feckless and brainwashed

I’d imagine because claiming something like that requires your claim to be evidence-based, and no credible long term research or study has taken place to establish a causal link. Just as no causal link has yet been established between watching slasher movies and playing Call of Duty and becoming a mass murdered, or listening to Tupac and playing Grand Theft Auto and becoming a car jacker.

I’m not saying there is no link between pornographer and rapists, because I don’t know. The point is, nobody actually does and so nobody with a reputation to keep us going to seriously offer it up as an explanation.

This is one of the reasons I’m so angry at people pushing ‘Sex Work is Work’ like it’s a perfectly normal profession and not something desperate women and girls are often forced into. Women and girls are becoming seen as little more than commodities to so many men these days and violent pornography and violent sex are seen as normal. Rape convictions are so low it’s practically been decriminalised, what is there to stop men like this?!

Completely agree!

Very good point.

Absolutely agree.

Im waiting to hear what else he has done. His poor wife will have suffered at his hands as well

Argh I had no idea and I agree with you OP.

I might get flamed for this but this has made me think of the whole "bodies with vaginas" thing. It becomes more and more acceptable to see women as these things that are there for men's convenience to use as they see fit.

What a world we live in

@ComtesseDeSpair

I’d imagine because claiming something like that requires your claim to be evidence-based, and no credible long term research or study has taken place to establish a causal link. Just as no causal link has yet been established between watching slasher movies and playing Call of Duty and becoming a mass murdered, or listening to Tupac and playing Grand Theft Auto and becoming a car jacker.

I’m not saying there is no link between pornographer and rapists, because I don’t know. The point is, nobody actually does and so nobody with a reputation to keep us going to seriously offer it up as an explanation.

There is absolutely a correlation between male porn users and sexual offending. That is well established. Since porn popularised women being buggered there is also an increase in women reporting having anal sex to places like sexual health and Family planning centres. Although I am not aware of research on this, the massive anecdoctal increases in young women reporting the types of sexual experiences (non-consented choking, slapping, hair pulling and general violent and aggressive sex) that I never experienced and non of my peers did, other than those who were victims of actual reportable sex crimes, does seem to suggest a massive change in sexual practice - and the change is towards those images popularised in mainstream porn.

I am sure you are smart enough to know that causal links are extremely difficult to establish, and often impossible to establish. But that doesn't mean they don't exist and the entire weight is pointing to this being a causal link. Its why we don't have casual racism or anti-semitism on tv anymore, even though no-one established a causal link between that and racism/ anti-semitism. We still know its offensive and influences behaviour. But when it comes to women being sexually brutalised we refuse to recognise it as offensive or feeding into violence towards women. And what does that say about the actual status of women in society?

I totally agree. And even if some people think ‘mainstream’ hard porn is acceptable 🤯, it sounds as if this was very far from the norm. But yes, totally a slippery slope. I didn’t know the sort of porn he’s into even existed until I read about it on another thread.

I completely disagree.

Women have been raped, kidnapped and killed for years way before internet porn and I think it’s shifting the blame by saying watching violent porn has caused this.

It's because men seem to always minimise mysogynustic behaviour in other men. In almost every case like this where people are shrugging their shoulders saying "there was no indication the perpetrator was like this" what they actually mean is "there was no warning sign we are prepared to acknowledge because actually lots of men do it"

And I have to say that I find this flailing around ' there's no causal link' only fluffy brained people who have no reputation would suggest wanking to women being tortured and raped and murdered could in anyway influence attitudes to women!' really telling about the status of women.

That we are so minimising, so disregarding of women that we can actually argue that its okay for men to take pleasure of films of them being tortured and raped. That we can't object to this as a bad thing for women, if we want to have any type of ' reputation'. That we should just think that is ok, as the elusive ' causal link' has not been established.

I was thinking this too. A man like WC with a lovely family, fantastic life, great career.... all gone - and so many lives ruined. And for what? What on earth drives a man who has everything to commit such an unspeakable act? I get that people murder for money, revenge, gang affiliation etc but this is so outside the box.

Obviously in addition to poor Sarah and her family, I also feel for WC's wife and kids. What a horrible, horrible shock that must've been.

@toocold54

I completely disagree.

Women have been raped, kidnapped and killed for years way before internet porn and I think it’s shifting the blame by saying watching violent porn has caused this.

Of course women have always been raped.

But you can't create an anti-rape culture when you have a world wide industry which is based on pleasuring men to image of women being sexually violated. Of course that is going to encourage men to offend.
If we want to reduce offending, we have to look at what cultural influences are encouraging offending. Not just shrug our shoulders and say, 'men innit, what can you do - might as well let 'em wank off to rape'.

Are we in a pro-porn culture? Or am I just very narrow minded?