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Original poster

Why is no-one mentioning violent pornography and Wayne Couzans?

141 replies

deadleaves · 30/09/2021 18:48

I've been listening to the 'how did this happen' coverage and no-one is offering up as part of the explanation that he was a big fan of 'brutal pornography.'

If men wank off to women being brutalised that is inevitably going to lead to some of those men going to act out the violent fantasies which porn has now hardwired into their neural pathways as arousing.

If blatantly violent racist films were mainstream no-one would be surprised that racism increased, and I am sure all commentators would feel comfortable making this point.

But when sexualised violence against women in mainstream why are we pretending this isn't one of the contributory factors to brutal crimes like this?

OP posts:
NantesElephant · 30/09/2021 19:41

I agree OP, it’s the elephant in the room. We all need to talk about it, bring it into the daylight.

Backhometothenorth · 30/09/2021 19:42

Agree completely. It was mentioned by Harriet Harman earlier.

RoseAndRose · 30/09/2021 19:42

Have they published evidence that he was a user of violent porn?

Yes 'attracted to brutal pornography' were the exact words used in court.

The Spectator has just published on online article about this aspect. So maybe it's something that right-wingers are prepared to talk about

mobile.twitter.com/spectator/status/1443541918768680961

ChattyLion · 30/09/2021 19:44

Absolutely right OP. Parliament should be making it as difficult as possible for men to view filmed abuse, real or staged. It’s horrific. Of course it’s corrupting their view of womankind to watch that. It’s terrifying how easily available it must be to view. We should all be writing to our MPs to demand they act on it. No human being needs to see women being sexually tortured. There’s no right to access that.

toocold54 · 30/09/2021 19:46

If we want to reduce offending, we have to look at what cultural influences are encouraging offending.

I’ve not read anything about him having a violent porn addiction - but I may be wrong?!

You can’t assume this is the case so surely if you want to look at what cultural influences are encouraging offending then you need to look at the facts and not speculate as that won’t help at all.

FWIW I do think violent porn should be banned but I don’t think it can be blamed, especially in this case. A grown adult police officer knows you don’t rape people even if they do watch it on the internet.

Bagelsandbrie · 30/09/2021 19:48

@toocold54

If we want to reduce offending, we have to look at what cultural influences are encouraging offending.

I’ve not read anything about him having a violent porn addiction - but I may be wrong?!

You can’t assume this is the case so surely if you want to look at what cultural influences are encouraging offending then you need to look at the facts and not speculate as that won’t help at all.

FWIW I do think violent porn should be banned but I don’t think it can be blamed, especially in this case. A grown adult police officer knows you don’t rape people even if they do watch it on the internet.

It’s literally in almost every news article today. He had an obsession with “brutal pornography”.
Regularsizedrudy · 30/09/2021 19:51

Because the vast majority of men watch porn and pointing out this link would mean they have to do a millisecond of introspection and that might make the poor menz feel bad and GASP have to change their behaviour

somewhereoverthechipshop · 30/09/2021 19:51

You are SO right op. Nobody seems to care

TerriblyNaice · 30/09/2021 19:54

Thank goodness for this thread. Thank you OP and all contributors.

I really thought that I'd become terribly prudish because of my distaste at the many Mumsnet members' attraction, and even popularising of porn. Todays' porn is horrific and highly distasteful.

I feel the same about prostitution. People (usually women) being used as 'things you can buy' has never been OK to me.

MissyB1 · 30/09/2021 19:55

I have just had a very frank serious conversation with my 12 year old ds about this. He watched the news report about the case with me and I specifically brought up the subject of violent porn.
We need to be talking to our kids about this.

Clymene · 30/09/2021 19:55

@toocold54

If we want to reduce offending, we have to look at what cultural influences are encouraging offending.

I’ve not read anything about him having a violent porn addiction - but I may be wrong?!

You can’t assume this is the case so surely if you want to look at what cultural influences are encouraging offending then you need to look at the facts and not speculate as that won’t help at all.

FWIW I do think violent porn should be banned but I don’t think it can be blamed, especially in this case. A grown adult police officer knows you don’t rape people even if they do watch it on the internet.

Perhaps you should read the reports from the trial before posting.

Violent porn is leading to an epidemic of sexual violence perpetrated against women.

There are nearly 50,00 rape culture testimonies about schools on the Everyone's invited website.

We are raising our children in a world where VAWG is commonplace. It has to stop

Wexicans · 30/09/2021 19:56

I really don't know if it is cause and effect. It could be that he had those tendencies/fantasies and sought out that porn. I really don't know in his case.

But for sure it does influence younger kids. I recently posted about a recent case near where I'd lived in Ireland until recently, see here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/craicnet/4355181-Appalled-by-the-sentencing-in-the-Wexford-case-trigger-word

How can a 14 year old boy rape a young girl three different ways? Only if they have learned that through porn. That's proof enough for me.

Annasgirl · 30/09/2021 19:56

@Regularsizedrudy

Because the vast majority of men watch porn and pointing out this link would mean they have to do a millisecond of introspection and that might make the poor menz feel bad and GASP have to change their behaviour
Yes this. And the fact that it is a multi billion dollar industry that no one is allowed to challenge - and if you challenge it on MN you are labelled a ‘Mary Whitehouse Prude’ - imagine trying to challenge it on Reddit Hmm
Bagelsandbrie · 30/09/2021 19:57

@MissyB1

I have just had a very frank serious conversation with my 12 year old ds about this. He watched the news report about the case with me and I specifically brought up the subject of violent porn. We need to be talking to our kids about this.
I completely agree. And talk to them about it earlier than people seem to think we need to too - 12 is about right. By then and possibly even earlier they will already have been exposed to porn online or by talking about it with their friends. We need to have these discussions before the rot sets in and not be afraid of having these discussions. I actually think schools need to be doing more as well, there are many children who won’t be able to have these discussions with anyone.
Wexicans · 30/09/2021 19:58

And I will say in this WC, I do have my own related violent fantasies. If he were killed in prison, I would be happy.

Annasgirl · 30/09/2021 19:59

I also posted on your thread @Wexicans - that too was horrific and could only have come from porn.

BrilloPaddy · 30/09/2021 20:02

I just can't understand how such awful material can be accessed so easily and freely.

HummingBeeBox · 30/09/2021 20:05

I really do think all violent porn should be banned. It's so normalised and horrible

WaltzingToWalsingham · 30/09/2021 20:05

I completely agree. I think extreme porn (which is increasingly seen as normal) is responsible for a sea change in men's attitude to women, especially with regards to sex. I hope that if any good can come out of this appalling tragedy, it is an investigation into the influence of violent and degrading porn.

candycane222 · 30/09/2021 20:07

Thanks for posting this OP, it has been going through my head all day. I've been considering tweeting something like what you have put, but not had the bravery. Somewhere, people have made money out of encouraging Couzens to become a murderer.

aweegc · 30/09/2021 20:08

I have been listening to Crime Analyst Laura Richard's podcasts about the misogyny around the West Yorkshire police force during their handling of the Sutcliffe case. The series is called The Forgotten Victims. She used to work in homicide prevention at Scotland Yard.

The misogyny then was awful. What's shocking really is that it's so clear that changes since then about attitudes to women haven't changed all that much. What has changed is the use of words like "diversity" abd "inclusivity". Things are dressed up better, a shinier package. But underneath it, the changes are minimal.

Re the porn. If I told you Bob down the road got sexually aroused watching African Americans being hit, punched, dragged and called the N word, it'd be seen as horrific. He'd be seen as awful. And you wouldn't want your black friend to be anywhere near him. But Alex across the street gets sexually aroused watching a women crying while being slapped and having a penis rammed to the back of her throat until she vomits. He's seen as a normal bloke. Whether he kills or rapes anybody or not isn't even the point: why is violence against women socially acceptable if it gives men a hard on?

I also have deep sympathy for the killer's kids. How the fuck will they deal with the knowledge of not only what their father did, but that he took them so nearby soon after? And while maybe they don't know yet (I don't know their ages), they will end up knowing it because it's all over the Internet.

Sarah had an absolutely, utterly, unimaginably horrific end to her life. What seems very clear though is that she lived a life in which she was much loved and much liked. She seems to have had ideals and ethics and lived her life in line with those. Too much focus is on a) him and b) what he did to her. It's understandable, but if we let her end define her legacy, he's still in control.

ballsdeep · 30/09/2021 20:08

People even blamed childhood behaviour on the power rangers when they first came out, but refuse to see the correlation between violent porn and violence against women. I remember being young and there was a huge uproar over the bloody power rangers. Have we become so desensitised as a society?!

honeygriff · 30/09/2021 20:17

I was randomly doing DIY today in my daughters room with the window open. A large (about 10) group of lads walked past talking loudly about hearing a slap noise then some girls screaming that one of them had been hit. They were talking about this as if it was normal and quite funny and they all laughed. Some looked a little uncomfortable but the prevailing attitude to this wonderful anecdote was humour. What on earth has gone wrong?

staffieslobber · 30/09/2021 20:19

@SparklingLime the second tweet in that thread reads

The prosecutor replied that he had agreed to omit it following discussions with defence counsel, Jim Sturman QC. Mr Sturman says the line about violent pornography dated from 2002 and was not confirmed by any other evidence

It seems that the only evidence of him watching violent/brutal pornography was from 2002. Please don't think I'm defending him in any way, it just seems like there isn't any actual evidence that the pornography he watched played a part in his horrific crimes. (NB I haven't read the judges comments in full so might have missed something).

Antinerak · 30/09/2021 20:22

I think correlation does not equal causation, but in this case it's a clear indicator of why he did what he did. It feels wrong to blame such a horrific crime on something as simple as porn, i feel it deters from the fact HE did it, not the porn, not the violent video games he may have played. Many people watch violent porn or have questionable kinks but they don't act upon their interests.

It's difficult to see us trying to find out why he did it so we know what to avoid to keep ourselves safe. I have seen so many women talking about the details of what happened, followed by advice on how to avoid situations that could end up how this did. I'm sick of women being told to try not to be raped and murdered instead of men being told to not rape and murder.