Why is no-one mentioning violent pornography and Wayne Couzans?

[deadleaves]

I've been listening to the 'how did this happen' coverage and no-one is offering up as part of the explanation that he was a big fan of 'brutal pornography.'

If men wank off to women being brutalised that is inevitably going to lead to some of those men going to act out the violent fantasies which porn has now hardwired into their neural pathways as arousing.

If blatantly violent racist films were mainstream no-one would be surprised that racism increased, and I am sure all commentators would feel comfortable making this point.

But when sexualised violence against women in mainstream why are we pretending this isn't one of the contributory factors to brutal crimes like this?

I don’t think the rise of women being chocked to death during sex and men using the “rough sex” defense is any coincidence. Where do you think these men are seeing these acts? They are watching violent porn where women are being abused and thinking that this is normal.

Violence against women is so normalized and society is so sexualsied now that even children are engaging in these violent sexual acts.

So k beg to differ that it’s not related to pornography.

Totally agree with pps and have been thinking this for some time. It comes to something when my inner voice is telling me something but is being moderated by being thought of as "pearl clutching" or "prudish". I am so grateful to have done my dating in different times, but have teenage DDs and my heart sinks when I think of them getting involved with boys who have a very disturbed idea of what a sexual relationship should look like. It's not the first time that I have prayed for my DDs to announce that they are lesbians because, seriously, I would be much less anxious about their futures if they were.

Have donated to the crowd funder for cease as mentioned. We have to DO something or at least try.

@Antinerak You said "Many people watch violent porn or have questionable kinks but they don't act upon their interests."

There is ample evidence that this is not the case and in fact that many women experience unwanted violence during, what began as consensual sex.

www.bbc.com/news/uk-50546184

This is not the kind of sex that I experienced when I was sexually active with numerous partners in my late teens and early twenties and it was not the experience of my friends.

Others have said what I feel.
It seems to be bleeding obvious to my mind but something I just don't understand is, those that are pro porn,

What are the reasons/ rewards for keeping violent pornography?
Who and how does it benefit?

Absolutely agree. If a 15 year old boy watches violent porn then it’s inevitable that he will become desensitised with it. Even in the police, they are rotated if they are having to be involved in porn so that they are still shocked by it.

@deadleaves

And I have to say that I find this flailing around ' there's no causal link' only fluffy brained people who have no reputation would suggest wanking to women being tortured and raped and murdered could in anyway influence attitudes to women!' really telling about the status of women.

That we are so minimising, so disregarding of women that we can actually argue that its okay for men to take pleasure of films of them being tortured and raped. That we can't object to this as a bad thing for women, if we want to have any type of ' reputation'. That we should just think that is ok, as the elusive ' causal link' has not been established.

This. All this. If anyone stupidly can't see how our society has changed, remember the 'bodies with vaginas' Lancet cover.

For years I have felt that many men do not particularly enjoy the act of sex. They have massive hang-ups around size, performance and the rest. The Margaret Atwood quote that "Men are terrified women will laugh at them" seems to apply here. Seeing women helpless and dominated in porn must be balm to those with these anxieties.

I gave up dating a long time ago because even very nice, normal men, in bed just became horrible. Some just seemed to totally dissociate from the act itself and be screening porn in their head. Accounts like this are all over Mumsnet. It's crap sex for men, it's crap sex for women and I feel sick for my daughter and her future. My friends in their 40s that hooked up at uni and are still with the same guy just have no idea in some cases about this porn-sodden culture. It's grim.

@IfImLyingImDying

Because apparently, “everyone”, including a great deal of women on MN think porn is totally harmless. Feckless and brainwashed

OP is right, but why are we acting like violent rape porn is mainstream? That's just a lie, and I don't know how someone who claims not to watch porn can assert that it is.

On porn sites, the biggest sites, words are censored. Rape definitely is, and I think words like sleeping or other potentially violent words are too.

Violent porn is awful and can absolutely prompt someone to recreate that thrill in real life.

however most people watch porn, even if rarely. Most people aren't watching violent brutalising of women.

@Fanjosaysi - how do you know that "most people watch porn"? I have never done so and never plan to either. Am I that unusual?

[quote FrauleinSchweiger]@Fanjosaysi - how do you know that "most people watch porn"? I have never done so and never plan to either. Am I that unusual?[/quote]
I would say that porn watching is vey common amongst my group of friends.

I think linking the murder to violent porn is lazy, and akin to the blaming of the Jamie Bulger Killing on Horror Movies.

Sadly, some people are just horrific in humane pieces of sh*t. If it was today or during the 50's with no computers, this scum bag would have done the same.

Because violent porn is not considered particularly deviant any more.😔

But you can't create an anti-rape culture when you have a world wide industry which is based on pleasuring men to image of women being sexually violated

There isn't any violent porn on pornhubs homepage for example. The biggest site. Claims that there are really isn't helpful, it's just barking up the wrong tree.

It's a misinformed opinion from people who have a blanket dislike of all sexual content, and it gets us nowhere to compare run of the mill explicit videos to depictions of rape and other violence.

Agree OP and while we're here, how many of us have our children playing, for instance, Grand Theft Auto, alone and unsupervised in their rooms? The normalisation of violence against women, sex an additional extra, is very worrying. Can't put mainstream TV on without seeing a rape/murder/both, or a variety thereof, every day of the week. So common it's barely noticed and not considered worthy of comment. I am sick of being faced with directors pervy fantasies served up for our entertainment.

[quote FrauleinSchweiger]@Fanjosaysi - how do you know that "most people watch porn"? I have never done so and never plan to either. Am I that unusual?[/quote]

Sorry, most people my age do. Not sure about yours. Many people watch infrequently. Millions I this country so just because you don't- I mean, it doesn't say much

People my age readily admit to it, so I know they do, no reason to lie.

Also @FrauleinSchweiger we can't say there's a massive problem with porn culture... and simultaneously only a minority watch.

[quote FrauleinSchweiger]@Fanjosaysi - how do you know that "most people watch porn"? I have never done so and never plan to either. Am I that unusual?[/quote]
Nor me. I don't want to watch something that may involve trafficked , abused, exploited women ( or men for that matter).

The point a previous poster made about gay porn was very interesting.

Sorry, most people my age do. Not sure about yours. Many people watch infrequently. Millions I this country so just because you don't- I mean, it doesn't say much

So do most of your female friends watch it? I find that really depressing, women getting off to the exploitation of other women.

OP and many posters here make some very intelligent points, and have linked to compelling evidence. But you are all forgetting that:

• Boys will be boys
• All men use porn
• No direct proof that he would definitely not have done this if he didn't watch violent porn
• it's always happened

-women do it too [no need for evidence of that, obvious innit]

• porn is empowering
• sex work is work
• the poor mens have a right to sex/sexual fantasies
• mustn't censor what we can say/watch [but saying women don't have penises is literal violence]
• what about gang violence against men/racism/other terrible stuff that is not related to VAWG [and won't stop if we turn a blind eye to VAWG]
• it's just an isolated incident

MEN need to start changing this narrative. All men who don't engage in this sexist behaviour need to challenge it. Not laugh it off/make jokes about it/pretend it's normal. Not consider it none of their business. And to think of the women involved first, not the man.

How many threads have we all seen along the lines of 'My DH is going on a stag do where the group will be going to lapdancing clubs/using prostitutes. He's a nice bloke and says he won't be taking part so it's ok cos it's just a laugh and what happens on stags but I feel uncomfortable with it.' Why aren't all these supposed nice blokes saying 'No Dave, I won't be going. Not only is this disrespectful to my wide but did you know [info about realities of sex work/traffiking etc]. Does your OH know your plans?'

The only reference to him being nicknamed rapist was in a previous job in 2011. He only joined the met in 2018.
So it feels unfair to say this was happening with police colleagues.

However, I do feel this WAS his first time.
I believe he knew he was going to be kicked out given his recent crimes, and his warrant badge removed.
It was the only time he had left to use his warrant badge and handcuffs to capture a woman without anyone on the street batting an eye. It worked.
He knew full well what the met was capable of and went and did it. Knowing he was likely going to be kicked out anyway.

I've been so upset by Sarah's abduction and murder and I couldn't place why it affected me so.
I then realised that with every crime similar to this, there's victim blaming.
You can tell yourself, oh, I wouldn't have done that, so it wouldn't happen to me.

But Sarah did everything 'right'. She stopped for a police officer and went willingly when she thought she was arrested. None of us could say, we'd do it differently.

Ok @Fanjosaysi - maybe it's an age thing- I am in my early 50s so probably considered old and past it. But because of the internet, porn wasn't as available when I was young and certainly wasn't something that everyone was exposed to at a young age. I remember teenage boys getting excited about watching "Porkys" and I'm sure they got hold of "blue" videos (I know I'm showing my age here) but it wasn't as prolific. Me and my friends got excited by reading Jackie Collins or Jilly Cooper. My sexual relationships and encounters would probably be described as "vanilla" nowadays. However they still involved excitement and mutual pleasure and although it's obviously v unfashionable to say it, that was fine by me (and obviously DH as we've been together for nearly 30 yrs).

@fanjosaysi

But you can't create an anti-rape culture when you have a world wide industry which is based on pleasuring men to image of women being sexually violated

There isn't any violent porn on pornhubs homepage for example. The biggest site. Claims that there are really isn't helpful, it's just barking up the wrong tree.

It's a misinformed opinion from people who have a blanket dislike of all sexual content, and it gets us nowhere to compare run of the mill explicit videos to depictions of rape and other violence.

So I googled pornhub violent pornography and this was the first hit on google.

ABUSEME - Excellent Collection of Aggressive Pornographywww.pornhub.com › view_video
24 Jun 2021 — Watch ABUSEME - Excellent Collection Of Aggressive Pornography on Pornhub.com

I suspect a lot of the women who watch pornography don’t understand the exploitation involved and - as other threads about porn here have shown before- actually think it’s some sort of feminist choice in some very odd perverse way.

I absolutely hate porn. Cannot stand it. And it saddens me that it’s become such a mainstream part of our culture.

I absolutely completely agree with you OH. I came on here today looking for a thread about this and here it is. You have hit the nail on the head and I feel so sickened and helpless and so worried thinking about my daughters growing up and dating in this climate.

I bet he used escorts as well, I know the reference he made about the EE gang and the unpaid call girl was all crap but he was just the type to use them yet isn’t it illegal for men to pay some sex workers, like the street ones? I don’t know if he went to street ones but lots of policemen use escorts yet arrest other men that do!

The internet and the porn industry are to blame as well, if there wasn’t any porn stars making these awful porn films then there would be nothing to access on the internet for it, let’s face it, it’s about the money with the internet stuff, it’s always about the money, can you imagine how much is made from all the hits from violent dangerous perverts, hits turns into money!