Why is no-one mentioning violent pornography and Wayne Couzans?

[deadleaves]

I've been listening to the 'how did this happen' coverage and no-one is offering up as part of the explanation that he was a big fan of 'brutal pornography.'

If men wank off to women being brutalised that is inevitably going to lead to some of those men going to act out the violent fantasies which porn has now hardwired into their neural pathways as arousing.

If blatantly violent racist films were mainstream no-one would be surprised that racism increased, and I am sure all commentators would feel comfortable making this point.

But when sexualised violence against women in mainstream why are we pretending this isn't one of the contributory factors to brutal crimes like this?

I completely agree.

I have felt this for a number of years. I think the kind of porn available these days is warping the minds of young boys and adult men. In severe cases, this definitely leads to sexually assaults, violence and rapes. But even on a day to day basis, teenage girls and women have to deal with boyfriends,partners and husbands with totally insane sexual demands, particularly in new relationships or within the casual hook up/Tinder culture which is now so prevalent.

What could be done? Could a campaign be started to ban them? Online gambling sites are banned in the USA, for example.

I'm sure there will always be a workaround and people will exchange files online or physical DVDs if necessary, but if there was a way to keep it from young boys particularly, at least that would be a start.

[quote staffieslobber]@SparklingLime the second tweet in that thread reads

The prosecutor replied that he had agreed to omit it following discussions with defence counsel, Jim Sturman QC. Mr Sturman says the line about violent pornography dated from 2002 and was not confirmed by any other evidence

It seems that the only evidence of him watching violent/brutal pornography was from 2002. Please don't think I'm defending him in any way, it just seems like there isn't any actual evidence that the pornography he watched played a part in his horrific crimes. (NB I haven't read the judges comments in full so might have missed something).[/quote]
Someone who watches pornography will always watch pornography. Unless the world changes to stop them watching it they will keep watching it.

My ex dh (who I left when my dd was 6 months old due to his abusive behaviour) was very into violent pornography. It’s something I find really upsetting so perhaps I feel more strongly about it than many people do but I really think we need to make it impossible for people to find and watch these things. My ex used to share vhs videos of this sort of stuff between him and his friends (this was in the late 90s) but now he’s probably just sitting there with his laptop, with access to all sorts of horrible stuff. It’s too easy for people to see all this shit now.

I totally agree that violent porn and violent films should be banned. I can't understand why they are not. They are encouraging illegal, abusive behaviour and probably glamouring it - I don't know for sure, because I've never viewed those things.

I am pleased for all the cameras we have around - on buses; people's private houses; on their cars; on buildings. I don't think certain dangerous criminals would have been caught without them. The technology for identifying people beyond doubt, via biometrics, etc. Is formidable. Some of them must be discreetly placed, I think, and perpetrators aren't aware.

Forget 1984 fears: I say 'Yes' to more CCTV.

The human beings who have lost their life because of a sick perversion have been let down, but I don't exactly know by what. I don't know, in full and in complexity, what about society is most to blame. But I feel angry for these wonderful females who touch our lives and go on affecting us. I'm sure lots of people will feel like me that learning about these tragic ladies makes me feel that my own life can never be the same. Like others, I feel like I have to do something.

For everyone suggesting a lack of link you might want to read the below. It took me less than one minute to find, about the same amount of time it took you to type there was a lack of evidence or the amount of time it takes to find an image of a sobbing woman being brutalised - if that’s your thing.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/976730/The_Relationship_between_Pornography_use_and_Harmful_Sexual_Attitudes_and_Behaviours-_literature_review_v1.pdf

‘Across all of the methodologies reviewed, there is substantial evidence of an association between the use of pornography and harmful sexual attitudes and behaviours towards women. The nature and strength of this relationship varies across the literature, and there are many potential moderating (potentially even mediating) variables that require further investigation. However, it is clear that a relationship does exist and this is especially true for the use of violent pornography.’

@guinnessguzzler

100%. CEASE (Centre to End All Sexual Exploitation) have shared some content around this today and have some actions on their social media and website that you can take: cease.org.uk

Thank you for sharing this

[quote SparklingLime]Have they published evidence that he was a user of violent porn?

Yes, it was mentioned by the judge yesterday. Reported here: twitter.com/totalcrime/status/1443223585665994760?s=21[/quote]
Also from the same Twitter thread:

"The prosecutor replied that he had agreed to omit it following discussions with defence counsel, Jim Sturman QC. Mr Sturman says the line about violent pornography dated from 2002 and was not confirmed by any other evidence. "

If one experience in 2002 counts as firm evidence of obsession (what Mary Wakefield wrote in Spectator) then we are all alcoholics and a million other bad things.

Yes, I posted that in my screenshot, @lljkk. If you think he had a look at some extreme pornography in 2002 and then swore off it forever after, well… come on.

Omitting it from the prosecution case sounds like a legal technicality to me.

Well no one really wants to acknowledge it because that makes you a prude 🤔

Let's just ignore the incidences of porn consumption by the perp leading up to a rape/murder.

Completely agree OP.

Totally agree violent porn should be banned. And there should be limits on who can access any sort of porn. CEASE linked to up thread has a campaign to stop porn companies targeting children and processing their data cease.org.uk/protectkidsfromporn-campaign/

@toocold54

I completely disagree.

Women have been raped, kidnapped and killed for years way before internet porn and I think it’s shifting the blame by saying watching violent porn has caused this.

I agree.

Is everyone in the countries and cultures that practice FGM wanking over anal sex on pornhub? Did those who participate in "honour" based violence get the idea from Only Fans?

It's too easy to point the finger at porn now it's happening to the people who matter, isn't it.

I agree that porn definitely plays a part towards the normalisation of violence against women.
So many guys are into extreme porn nowadays that I can’t see myself dating again any time soon if ever because I don’t want to deal with a guy who watches porn and it seems like pretty much all of them do.

And then you get into stuff like guys thinking that it’s perfectly normal to choke your partner during sex because it’s in porn.

Of course there were some women who were attacked and even killed but nothing like we see today.

The actual statistics do not bear out your anecdata.

Men were not viewed as monsters but as our protectors and the conclusion that I have come to that violent porn is around much more nowadays and easily available.

Given the number of operation yew tree and historic #metoo cases, it is fair to say men have never just been seen as our protectors.

This make sobering listening around the culture of violence against women driven by readily accessible porn....
podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/episode-70-dr-weston-talks-chief-constable-simon-bailey/id1450644258?i=1000526711370

I agree OP

While porn may not be to blame per se, it says an awful lot about a man who seeks out porn that consists of degradation, humiliation and violence. The more they watch, the more normal it becomes to them. Not every man who watches that kind of porn will go on to offend in this way but I would bet money that every man who offends in this way has accessed violent porn.

I guess we don’t know the exact details of his porn consumption.

BUT - there are other reasons for banning it. It would be pretty uncontroversial to ban simulated child pornography (eg even if the child was a virtual image/deep faked onto a small adult body). Why would we ban that? And why would the same argument not apply to violent porn?

why is violence against women socially acceptable if it gives men a hard on?

This is it in a nutshell.

To those people saying, well fgm hasn't come from porn, not honour killings, men have always raped women.

Yes, they have. Violence against women has always existed. But as I said upthread, if we want to tackle this and reduce violence against women, we have to remove from society a mainstream activity in which men get to wank off to the sexual abuse of women.

You can't tackle the sexual abuse of women in a culture where it is socially sanctioned to wank off to the sexual abuse of women.

I don't think that's a difficult point to understand.

Is everyone in the countries and cultures that practice FGM wanking over anal sex on pornhub? Did those who participate in "honour" based violence get the idea from Only Fans? It's too easy to point the finger at porn now it's happening to the people who matter, isn't it

Can I also point out that I really object to the completely unfounded assumption that (a) you know my race and ethnicity (b) I am a racist who only thinks white women matter (c) I have never objected to fgm or honour killings, ( I have).

Can I also point out that you are assuming I am white and that I am racist for objecting to porn as that means I do not object to fgm or honour killings (a bizarre and wrong assumption). But that white women also get called racist by some if they DO object to fgm.

Perhaps people should spend less time in accusation at suspected inner motivations but just respond to the actual issue under debate?

I agree OP, and it’s so depressing how many people refuse to see the effect it has. Of course not all men who watch porn will go on to do this stuff, but the fact that there is a plethora of degrading and humiliating porn out there for young men to access easily is horrible.

I remember listening to a gay man talk about the first time he watch straight porn (for curiosity purposes I guess), and he said it was so one sided and aggressive, and compared it to gay porn where it about a mutually pleasurable experience.

Presumably because the consumers of gay porn are able to picture themselves in both roles, where as heterosexual porn is made by men, for men. The women are just the consumable product.

Also, the rise in rough sex defence, where women are apparently responsible for being choked to death because she asked for it . And the fact that anal sex is now completely normal and almost ‘vanilla’ when years ago it was niche.

But many don’t want to see the problems, and like many other things men don’t care about the effects on women, because they don’t have to care.
As long as they get to masturbate.

I completely agree OP and it blows my mind a little bit that some people can't see that violent porn normalises violence against women.

I remember listening to a gay man talk about the first time he watch straight porn (for curiosity purposes I guess), and he said it was so one sided and aggressive, and compared it to gay porn where it about a mutually pleasurable experience

Yes. Sex should be about mutual pleasure. We don't even seem to have that conversation. Instead its all about consent. What a terrible indictment is that? That things are so bad in heterosexual sex land that the big conversation is about getting a woman to say yes. Rather that the conversation being about mutual pleasure and enthusiastic joy!

But of course the conversation has to be about consent when boys from the start of puberty are watching porn where the whole kick comes from the woman saying 'NO' and being attacked.

Absolutely agreed.
Sick of our law makers failing to act with regard to controls around porn.
Can't quite believe that some people still fail to see, or don't want to admit, that there's a connection between violent porn and it's availability & normalisation, & the rise in misogyny and violence against women and girls.
Anal, choking, rough sex - all things which young women regularly report being pressured into doing. Women are being treated like subhuman sex dolls. No one in government wants to touch this issue. It's part of the wider neglect and erosion of women's rights.

100% agree with deadleaves.

Just want to say that many serial killers and sex offenders mention that they were consumers of porn. For many of them they started with very vanilla porn and it escalated to very violent porn as a way to fulfill their dark fantasies. Once porn no longer met that need they went on to killing women. You can readily access info about their offenses via crime statistics and info gathered by the FBI and their studies of serial killers.

So let’s not act like porn does not play any role in sexual offenses and the murder of women. Porn does more harm to society, than good.