Previously undecided voters would you vote for Starmer's Labour now?

[VinylQueen]

Are there any previously Tory voters or undecided voters who would now consider voting Labour in a GE based on Kier Starmer's speech and him taking on the far left of the party?

I vote Labour anyway but I'm interested if any of his speech "cut through" as they say. To my eyes the main heckler just came across like a complete loony and made Kier Starmer's stance look even more sensible.

Until they can define what a woman is - ie by sex.

So can’t see me ever voting for Labour.

Patronising and wrong. I have no problem with people living how they want to live, but women's sports, spaces and rights are not a buffet for others to help themselves.

What rights do you think trans people actually lack?

You are failing to engage with people's concerns. As are labour. And at every turn you try and turn those concerns against people (wasn't it you who accused me of racism when I was quoting your David Lammy's findings.)

And that's why you and your beloved labour will never ever be in power.

Oh and just so you know, among the most marginalised in society are people with disabilities, vulnerable women and children. Why don't you focus on their needs for a change?

You can't even address any of my points without resorting to name calling.

That's because your position is indefensible.

I'll spell it out. By ignoring the concerns raised you've shown yourself to be:

Pro rapists in women's prisons.

Pro males in female hospital wards.

Pro males in women's sports.

Anti women's only services for sexual abuse victims.

I’ve always voted Labour as in my experience where I’ve lived, it’s them or the Tories- and I’d never, ever vote Tory. I’m not ecstatic to vote for Labour though. I liked Corbyn to start with before realising he’s an antisemite to Boris’ racist. While I don’t think KS is either of those things, he is a let down imo. No charisma, what seems like no balls half the time but he is the lesser of 2 evils.

"You're all hateful bigots but vote for a Labour MP anyway" and "You're all hateful bigots so don't taint your Labour MP with your vote"

@elodie77

Belle I'm afraid your constant referring to trans women as men and males shows your own agenda which I'm not minded to engage with more than I already have. Try to overcome your bigotry and stop viewing trans women as people trying to 'remove your safe spaces' and 'dismantle women's sports' and see them as they are, an often very vulnerable and persecuted group of people trying to live a normal life - something that you take for granted!

It’s not bigotry to want to preserve women’s rights. Women deserve their rights to safety, dignity and privacy to be respected all over the world. Don’t you dare label we who are fighting every day to uphold OUR RIGHTS as bigots. Your agenda and those of Labour, Scottish Greens, SNP, Lib Dems etc with regards to women’s rights are the dubious ones.

Women Won’t Wheest and women will prevail.

@Brigittebidet

So just for interest, I sent this link to my Labour MP. This was his reply:

"Thanks for the email. I have had a look at the thread and the theme seems to be that the contributors are largely unhappy that the Labour party view trans women as women.

I think you know my position on this: trans men are men, trans women are women and being non-binary is valid. As an ardent equality campaigner I have never believed we advance the interests of one group with a protected characteristic by removing or limiting the interests of another group.

As Plymouth's first ever out MP, I know the fight for equality is a long one, and that the rights I enjoy as an openly gay man now were similarly attacked in the past.

Labour has strong policies in support of women and strong policies in support of trans people. I believe you can have strong policies to promote the best interests of both groups, acknowledging the obvious cross-over. I will continue to make the case for equality and do so respecting those who may currently disagree with me.

This may not win your vote if your view is in line with those expressed on the thread, but I would prefer to do the right thing and put forward a position I truly believe in because it respects my values than compromise that fundamental belief I have in equality to chase votes. Others may feel comfortable doing this, but I do not."

He deserves on many levels to lose his seat next time round.

How does compromising the safety of women meet his belief in equality? Women have safe spaces FOR equality, so they can play an equal part in public life because nature gives us a physical disadvantage and male pattern behaviour with their physical size and strength puts women at risk.

That cunt is crying out for a visit from a dinosaur.

@elodie77

Belle I'm afraid your constant referring to trans women as men and males shows your own agenda which I'm not minded to engage with more than I already have. Try to overcome your bigotry and stop viewing trans women as people trying to 'remove your safe spaces' and 'dismantle women's sports' and see them as they are, an often very vulnerable and persecuted group of people trying to live a normal life - something that you take for granted!

You really have bought into the engineered oppression haven't you. Try to overcome your misogyny, there's a love.

From Brigittebidet's MP's letter:

Labour has strong policies in support of women

Could anyone list these and explain the mechanisms by which they support women please?

@Brigittebidet

So just for interest, I sent this link to my Labour MP. This was his reply:

"Thanks for the email. I have had a look at the thread and the theme seems to be that the contributors are largely unhappy that the Labour party view trans women as women.

I think you know my position on this: trans men are men, trans women are women and being non-binary is valid. As an ardent equality campaigner I have never believed we advance the interests of one group with a protected characteristic by removing or limiting the interests of another group.

As Plymouth's first ever out MP, I know the fight for equality is a long one, and that the rights I enjoy as an openly gay man now were similarly attacked in the past.

Labour has strong policies in support of women and strong policies in support of trans people. I believe you can have strong policies to promote the best interests of both groups, acknowledging the obvious cross-over. I will continue to make the case for equality and do so respecting those who may currently disagree with me.

This may not win your vote if your view is in line with those expressed on the thread, but I would prefer to do the right thing and put forward a position I truly believe in because it respects my values than compromise that fundamental belief I have in equality to chase votes. Others may feel comfortable doing this, but I do not."

He deserves on many levels to lose his seat next time round.

How can he say "As an ardent equality campaigner I have never believed we advance the interests of one group with a protected characteristic by removing or limiting the interests of another group."

That is EXACTLY what Labour wants to do by removing safe spaces for women. They are seeking to advance the interests of trans people by removing and limiting women's rights to safe spaces and fairness in sport (and other issues such as "women of the year" awards etc.)

And can I just say, as a survivor of domestic abuse, breast cancer and sexual assault all of which happened due to me being a woman it is absolutely abhorrent to reduce the definition of a woman to a feeling in a man's brain

I'm so angry now. This is the epitome of male privilege.

@Piapiano

I'm so angry now. This is the epitome of male privilege.

What she said.

@Piapiano

And can I just say, as a survivor of domestic abuse, breast cancer and sexual assault all of which happened due to me being a woman it is absolutely abhorrent to reduce the definition of a woman to a feeling in a man's brain

This 👆

@Blossomtoes

I spoilt my paper in 2019. It looks as if I’ll be doing it again next time unless they stop alienating 51% of their potential voters. I’m pretty disgusted by their treatment of Rosie Duffield too.

Same, same and same.

Yes. Although locally I'd probably have to continue to vote Liberal to have any chance of the Tory being ousted.

There are some ridiculous comments as to why they wouldn't. Our current Government don't care for anyone but themselves but that seems to be lost with whatttaboutery and Keir.

I'm a lifelong Labour voter, living in a marginal seat which has been swapping between Labour and Conservative for at least the last 10 years- usually with a majority of a couple of thousand votes.
I will not be voting Labour because of their attitude to women's rights.
I emailed my Tory MP a while ago, and he is against biological men in women's spaces.

Sounds a lot like the hysteria here about the perceived 'loss of rights' that women are apparently facing if trans rights are expanded. You're victims of a Tory culture war.

Hysteria...nice. Your slip is showing.

Why do trans rights need to be expanded? What does this mean? They already have the same rights as everyone else.

And the Tories were all set to go ahead with Self ID until women started campaigning. Rather sounds like you don't really know what you're talking about.

this site becoming more right wing

You ARE joking? There are countless threads about the evil, incompetent Tories. And every thread about people who don't want to vote Labour gets bombarded with "But the evil, incompetent Tories! What are you, some kind of bigot?"

@ScreamingMeMesaur

this site becoming more right wing

You ARE joking? There are countless threads about the evil, incompetent Tories. And every thread about people who don't want to vote Labour gets bombarded with "But the evil, incompetent Tories! What are you, some kind of bigot?"

Absolutely

And more often than not the same poster saying they won’t vote labour also says they won’t vote tory

Thanks for resurrecting this zombie thread and posting your incoherent rant about your antisemitic magic grandpa hero.