Previously undecided voters would you vote for Starmer's Labour now?

[VinylQueen]

Are there any previously Tory voters or undecided voters who would now consider voting Labour in a GE based on Kier Starmer's speech and him taking on the far left of the party?

I vote Labour anyway but I'm interested if any of his speech "cut through" as they say. To my eyes the main heckler just came across like a complete loony and made Kier Starmer's stance look even more sensible.

Not a chance of voting for labour while they sacrifice women for trans . Not saying I’ll vote conservative either . I’m a typical floating voter and have voted both labour and conservative in the past .

Sigh. Did I say the Tories are listening? You are really just seeing what you want to see.

Fact is both parties are inadequate. I consider labour more dangerous. I'm not alone in this.

I think I am perfectly fine to be concerned about virtue signalling, when Lammy and co have been doing nothing but that recently.

I have evidence labour candidates don't listen. I wrote to my local candidate last year and no response.

I think I will give that book recommendation a miss thank you.

You still haven't addressed Lisa Nandy advocating for male rapists being house in female prisons And I won't

Of course you won't because it's fucking indefensible.

Justice Secretary Dominic Raab whose remit includes the prison service is against making misogyny a hate crime and is on record calling feminists 'obnoxious bigots' and says that 'men get a raw deal'.

David Lammy called women 'rights hoarding dinosaurs'.

You're also deluded if you think that BoJo and his mates care anything about the conditions in women's prisons or women's rights and quality of life.
As I said before and so repeat. I don't think the tories are good for women's rights, but I think Labour currently are worse.

I can't see myself voting at all in the foreseeable future. There is no one and nothing that represents me, as a working female without a rich family.

How about the house that is actually burning? Like someone said upthread, people are expecting perfection from Labour but are prepared to tolerate nearly any level of incompetence and corruption from the Conservatives.

Absolute bollocks and hyperbole. A pox on both their houses, frankly.

Expecting labour to be able to tell the difference between men and women is not expecting perfection.
A two year old could do it.

As a woman a Mother of Daughters and Granny of Granddaughters i could never vote Labour.

Absolute bollocks and hyperbole. A pox on both their houses, frankly.

I suppose you don't follow the news much.

elodie77 could you be more patronising?

@Wrongsideofhistorymyarse what’s the pearl clutching. Your reply to me was especially condescending.

Thekol condescending by saying I'm not voting Labour? Pffft. The pearl clutching is on the Labour side of this discussion.

Labour lost the last election because they were so sure that their cause was intrinsically just they insulted people who wouldn't vote for them. I see the same attitude on here from people who assume that people who won't vote Labour must be a) right-wingers or b) Tories. And are wrong because not wanting to vote Labour is wrong in itself.

I shan't be voting Labour because they have let women down badly. I shan't be voting Conservative because they are horrendous. But I can see why people may vote for them, given that they understand that there are only two sexes.

So just for interest, I sent this link to my Labour MP. This was his reply:

"Thanks for the email. I have had a look at the thread and the theme seems to be that the contributors are largely unhappy that the Labour party view trans women as women.

I think you know my position on this: trans men are men, trans women are women and being non-binary is valid. As an ardent equality campaigner I have never believed we advance the interests of one group with a protected characteristic by removing or limiting the interests of another group.

As Plymouth's first ever out MP, I know the fight for equality is a long one, and that the rights I enjoy as an openly gay man now were similarly attacked in the past.

Labour has strong policies in support of women and strong policies in support of trans people. I believe you can have strong policies to promote the best interests of both groups, acknowledging the obvious cross-over. I will continue to make the case for equality and do so respecting those who may currently disagree with me.

This may not win your vote if your view is in line with those expressed on the thread, but I would prefer to do the right thing and put forward a position I truly believe in because it respects my values than compromise that fundamental belief I have in equality to chase votes. Others may feel comfortable doing this, but I do not."

He deserves on many levels to lose his seat next time round.

i hate that false equivalence that many Labour MPs are currently trotting out between the campaign for gay rights (which was about equality of marriage & inheritance) and gender identity ideology.

How are the two remotely similar?

@Brigittebidet

So just for interest, I sent this link to my Labour MP. This was his reply:

"Thanks for the email. I have had a look at the thread and the theme seems to be that the contributors are largely unhappy that the Labour party view trans women as women.

I think you know my position on this: trans men are men, trans women are women and being non-binary is valid. As an ardent equality campaigner I have never believed we advance the interests of one group with a protected characteristic by removing or limiting the interests of another group.

As Plymouth's first ever out MP, I know the fight for equality is a long one, and that the rights I enjoy as an openly gay man now were similarly attacked in the past.

Labour has strong policies in support of women and strong policies in support of trans people. I believe you can have strong policies to promote the best interests of both groups, acknowledging the obvious cross-over. I will continue to make the case for equality and do so respecting those who may currently disagree with me.

This may not win your vote if your view is in line with those expressed on the thread, but I would prefer to do the right thing and put forward a position I truly believe in because it respects my values than compromise that fundamental belief I have in equality to chase votes. Others may feel comfortable doing this, but I do not."

He deserves on many levels to lose his seat next time round.

Perfect example, illustrating why women won't vote Labour. Completely missing the point about safeguarding, statistics, etc. Just a parrot. Blah blah are blah, blah blah are blah and being blah blah is blah.

No attempt to engage brain and actually think about what the problems are and how they can be resolved.

Either Labour MPs aren't very bright or they think we're not very bright.

Also ... the arrogance of a Party in Labour's position saying 'well, don't vote for me then!' and having a flounce is bloody breath-taking.

I'm a lifelong Tory, I will not vote for them again, I cannot forgive the increase in taxes and cutting of UC at a point when people are on their knees with higher costs of living. I do not believe for one second wages are going to rise to keep pace with inflation.

However, I can't afford to vote Labour, a 20% increase in private school fees will cost me an extra £65k which I don't have, we struggle as it is to send 2 x DC private. The prospect of a wealth tax and even higher income taxes for people like me, who earn well but very, very far off rolling in money scares the life out of me.

The prospect of having to pay tens of thousands of pounds because we own a normal, 4 bed, semi detached house in London, therefore we're rich and have tens of thousands of pounds in the bank, that we can afford to hand over is so far from reality and frankly, deluded. So I won't vote at all next time.

I'd print both letters out and whack them on lamp posts. Let the public decide.

I think the brazen honesty of "don't taint me with your bigoted votes, you nasty dinosaur" is, um, noteworthy.

Brigittebidet

Your MP took the time to look at what you sent him and write a respectful and honest reply stating his position with integrity, which I completely agree with: As an ardent equality campaigner I have never believed we advance the interests of one group with a protected characteristic by removing or limiting the interests of another group.

The petty childishness and thoughtlessness of your comment and other similar ones here is really sad.

Have a read through this. www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/oct/10/tories-fuel-shortages-war-on-woke-left-power

But if the government creates an impression that there are imminent threats to our way of life – aided by scaremongering about loss of identity, status, control over our fate and the very erasure of our past – those fears can easily be stretched in the public mind

Sounds a lot like the hysteria here about the perceived 'loss of rights' that women are apparently facing if trans rights are expanded. You're victims of a Tory culture war.

Absolutely not. Labour did have a chance to win my vote, but they squandered it at the conference with their shocking misogyny.

I wonder what the Labour Party leaders would think of one of their MPs actually telling people not to vote for them.

Never

As an ardent equality campaigner I have never believed we advance the interests of one group with a protected characteristic by removing or limiting the interests of another group.

What do you think is happening? Women's safe spaces are being removed because of these policies. They absolutely are dismantling women's sports, spaces etc for the sacred cast.

What about the most vulnerable women in society? Muslim women who can't share spaces with men. Abuse victims who don't want to attend rape shelters with males. Prisoners locked up with violent male criminals.

All these things not only exist, they are happening right now. So don't you dare tell women that their concerns aren't real.

What the people you are prioritising here want is extra rights.
Women have access to certain spaces, services and roles to tackle sexism and help deal with biology.
Men don't have a right to these things.
So any males granted these things-i it's not rights, it's extra privileges.

I'll save you a post too.
"Oh but the Tories are evil."

Failure to engage with what people are actually saying makes you look like you have an agenda.

As an ardent equality campaigner I have never believed we advance the interests of one group with a protected characteristic by removing or limiting the interests of another group.

Unless that group is women and the protected characteristic of sex, happy to ignore them. Anyone who spouts thought terminating slogans like 'TWAW/TMAM/Non binary is valid' has no business being an MP, because it prevents them considering the needs of others as Belles post sets out.

Belle I'm afraid your constant referring to trans women as men and males shows your own agenda which I'm not minded to engage with more than I already have. Try to overcome your bigotry and stop viewing trans women as people trying to 'remove your safe spaces' and 'dismantle women's sports' and see them as they are, an often very vulnerable and persecuted group of people trying to live a normal life - something that you take for granted!