Previously undecided voters would you vote for Starmer's Labour now?

[VinylQueen]

Are there any previously Tory voters or undecided voters who would now consider voting Labour in a GE based on Kier Starmer's speech and him taking on the far left of the party?

I vote Labour anyway but I'm interested if any of his speech "cut through" as they say. To my eyes the main heckler just came across like a complete loony and made Kier Starmer's stance look even more sensible.

For the first time ever I'm not voting for anyone they are all appalling

Nope.

Tory voters: doesn't it rankle you that it's all seems to be a big joke to Boris, laughing and dismissing serious problems and people's concerns, the lies and bluster, 'let the bodies pile high', 'fuck business', all said with a smirk.

He just doesn't care. Someone just said to me that he is almost like a manipulative abuser who gets away with it so goes on to do something even more outrageous.

People might take your question a little more seriously if you don't refer to them as Tory voters in a transparent effort to try and trivialise and smear people who have a different view to you.

Funny enough, as a previous labour voter I have David Lammy's book. Very interesting, he seemed to have a very good grasp of why labour lost the last election, due to ignoring the issues that working class voters were concerned about by ignoring them and calling them bigoted. This arrogance and unwillingness to engage lost Brexit too.

It's a shame that whilst Lammy warns about echo chambers and tribal politics in his books, this doesn't translate into real life.

People vote conservative for a variety of reasons. Not because they are the homophobic racist stereotypes you like to portray. Many people are centre right.

No

Belle

Not referring to Tory voters as Tory voters Many here seem incredibly touchy about being called out on their opinions but think nothing of dishing the dirt.

People vote conservative for a variety of reasons. Not because they are the homophobic racist stereotypes you like to portray. Many people are centre right. Go on, spell out what the Conservatives are getting right.

And I don't think I've tried to portray anyone as any stereotype. I've criticised some posters here on what they have actually said.

Well, that's because I know lots of people who aren't particularly right wing or selfish who vote conservative. I think it shows a lack of coherent argument when people consistently try to paint difference of opinion as far right wing. You don't win anyone round to your cause by sneering contempt. This is mostly what you've displayed and a bit of whataboutism thrown in for good measure. You aren't really listening to people's reasons but just minimise them: very much like the labour party. This strategy alienates voters.

I actually used to be a bit of a if you vote Tory you are evil virtue signaller myself. I've had to eat humble pie and revise my opinions and part of that was realising that a lot of my opinions were virtue signalling. Whilst I don't consider this a competent government I think they are slightly less dangerous than current labour, so will vote tactically. Not something I take lightly, but that's reality.

As a wise (conservative) colleague said. You vote for the stage of life you are at and the life you are living.

That's why Lammy correctly observed that many working class traditional labour voters switched to conservatives because they felt they had valid concerns about immigration and weren't being listened to by labour.

It's why women who have some experience in biology or using single sex services like rape crisis centres won't vote for labour who want to end single sex services in favour of 'inclusive' services.

I mean, if you look at the sneering, intolerant language they have been coming out with for a while now it's easy to see they'll lose votes. Blame them for taking that tack and not the voters who notice that distain.

Belle I don't think I've sneered at anyone. I've got annoyed and frustrated a couple of times at people's pig-headedness in the face of a catastrophically incompetent government that has wrecked lives and are on course to wreck more. I haven't called anyone 'far right wing' - I think many people here are more ignorant than extreme right.

they felt they had valid concerns about immigration Let's hear them. FYI I'm an immigrant.

And the sneery attitude belongs to your PM, not Labour.

No and I also cancelled my membership.

they felt they had valid concerns about immigration

It's David Lammy's home town voters I'm talking about here. It's far too complex for me to outline so I suggest you read his book. Basically I believe it's an ex industrial town that lost a lot of funding when labour was in power and money was ploughed into the capital. Many of the local jobs went and due to lack of investment the only people who would do the jobs that hadn't moved up with inflation were single immigrants. The town lost its family feel as, quite understandingly, the men working shift jobs for awful pay spent a lot of time drinking. The town economically was hung out to dry and people wanted it to be a viable place to live and work.

Lammy could see that because of cheap labour the town had suffered. These are Lammy's findings. By all means, call him a racist, but I think actually he discovered a bit of nuance there that should have been addressed.

I didn't vote for Johnson. I voted labour until it became very apparent that they are intent on destroying sex based rights.
Let's hear them. FYI I'm an immigrant.

And obviously I don't agree with exploiting immigrants to avoid paying people a livable wage. One of the phenomenon Lammy uncovered was ten or so men living in a semi, working themselves to the bone then taking the money and going home.
10 men and one shower. It's not a good quality of life is it? It's exploitation to expect people to live like that.

I would vote for anyone or anything if it would get the current mendacious, lazy psychopath and his evil henchpeople out.

No. Sadly like many others I won't vote Labour as they are bent on removing women's rights, dignity and safe spaces. And I fully recognise the repulsive shower of shit that is the Tories. But there is nothing more important to me in the political field than that women stay as a defined group with legal identification and protection. Once that's gone we are lost.

And also I don't understand why those to the left of the Labour party would rather have more of these worst Tories ever, than have a Labour government whoever the leader. I wasn't a Corbyn fan (Brexit) but I wanted him to beat Johnson.

Yes, because being called a rights hoarding dinosaur isn't sneering at all.

Instead of getting on your white horse, you need to think about who you are actually talking to rather than who you think you are talking to.

I'm not well off. I'm a traditional labour voter, so much so I've a few labour leaning books, one of which I am referring to upthread.

I know it's nice to think in terms of a 'it is us and them' mentality. Everyone with a difference of opinion is an evil bigot. As much as it would be nice if it was as cut and dry as good versus evil, there's a balance. Labour, who used to be about championing the workers rights seem to have forgotten that it's not that simple. The bad guys don't wear black hats and twirl their moustaches.

And obviously I don't agree with exploiting immigrants to avoid paying people a livable wage. One of the phenomenon Lammy uncovered was ten or so men living in a semi, working themselves to the bone then taking the money and going home.
10 men and one shower. It's not a good quality of life is it? It's exploitation to expect people to live like that.

Yes, I've lived in a block where one of the flats was like that. But the Tories have never been interested in proper labour market regulation: paying proper wages, trade union rights, better safety standards, better educational requirements etc. Now in the last couple of days they claim to be, but I don't believe it. Free-market capitalism is built on cheap labour. Immigration isn't the cause of the problem but a way to paper over the cracks in the education system and lack of investment in working conditions etc.

Immigration isn't the cause of the problem but a way to paper over the cracks in the education system and lack of investment in working conditions etc.
Yes I know that. It's kind of the point of Lammy's book. But he rightly deduced that labour lost that town because, rather than acknowledge that there was a problem and the town needed proper investment and regulation, the candidate simply resorted to calling the locals bigots.

The point is there was a genuine concern that needed attention, but rather than address it the labour candidate took the easy way out and tried to virtue signal it away.

Which is what you are doing. Instead of listening to countless posts on this thread expressing concern, you've decided to cry hyperbole. Which is your right, just don't be surprised if you don't get your way at the ballots.

the town needed proper investment and regulation And are the Conservatives going to do that?

the candidate simply resorted to calling the locals bigots. I've been called all sorts here, and it's true that since the Brexit vote many people have definitely become more open about their xenophobia (personal experience).

Yes Brexit did enable racism. I don't deny that. I don't think Brexit is especially relevant as it wasn't a conservative- labour split. Seeing how May was remain and Corbyn leave.

I didn't say the conservatives were. The point is, in this particular case a labour candidate decided to dismiss people's concerns and paid the price for it. If they don't want history to repeat and repeat itself, they need to learn from their mistakes.

As I have said several times. I'm not voting for the conservatives with any joy in my heart. I'm voting that way because I have seen more than enough evidence that labour will damage women's rights more. It's not an easy choice. But labour don't get my vote by default anymore. I'm done with tribal voting. They've got to earn it.

it's been repeatedly posted: but the tories, but the tories, but the tories.

put your own house in order, then people will vote for you. people have told you why they will not vote labour but all you can come back with is "but the tories"

Labour are not listening. you are not listening.

put your own house in order How about the house that is actually burning? Like someone said upthread, people are expecting perfection from Labour but are prepared to tolerate nearly any level of incompetence and corruption from the Conservatives.

I'm not voting for the conservatives with any joy in my heart. I'm voting that way because I have seen more than enough evidence that labour will damage women's rights more. It's not an easy choice. But labour don't get my vote by default anymore. I'm done with tribal voting. They've got to earn it. Good luck.

@BelleOfTheProvince lol have you read the 8 thousand comments about johnson on the mail website. And very few complimentary. And regarding workers rights you do know who has repeatedly cut those very rights ? Along with legal aid, right to strike, the list goes on. But hey ho bang on about virtue signalling and the oft repeated but never evidenced meme that labour don't listen and the tories do. Maybe read Britannia unchained by priti patel and dom raab. Now that is an eye opener....

@elodie77. I did hear there was one labour voter that wanted to vote Labour again. Turns out it was you! 🤗