What do the tories have to do to lose an election ?

[Desmorelda]

There have been suggestions in the press that within the next year Johnson will call a general election what with the infighting going on in the LP and life for many returning to normal.
At the moment the Tories are still garnering a decent percentage of prospective votes in polls. On a recent thread about Angela Rayner's choice language most posters were incensed that the PM had been subjected to such insults and felt that this genuinely made the opposition unelectable, such was
her threat to the moral fabric of the UK. However bad things are, people seem to have short memories at election time. Default vote is for the tories, however fiscally inept they are, despite multiple incidents of cronyism and corruption, dishonesty, documented lying in parliament.
I appreciate other parties are equally as incompetent but in a more bumbling, less cynical way. The Tories on the other hand are tefal plated and are not subjected to the same rigorous moral standards as the lib dems or the LP, both by the press and voters. I find it mystifying as someone not born in this country that people are so complacent and forgiving. So I just wondered how bad do the Tories have to be to lose your vote. Or maybe explain what have they done so well in the last 11 years to deserve your vote ?

@Effic

Why (I think) people vote Tory & they are still ahead in the polls ….

Euro scepticism/ Brexit - it’s not a new thing. Tories were the only party to show some critical thinking around Europe and appeared to ‘listen’ to voters concerns and issues. Labour just called them all racist thickos. But the concerns of these voters (which they were told were unequivocally wrong) now appear correct. Working class people said that cheap foreign labour was driving down wages and working conditions …… they were absolutely told how wrong/thick/racist they were but now the situation around firstly hospitality workers and now lorry drivers seems to be confirming what they already thought. Wages are going up in both industries due to a shortage of staff and employers can no longer treat them like shit knowing there is an endless supply cos there isn’t. Care workers will be next I think. That’s a lot of people’s lived reality at the moment.

Current shortages ….. a few clicks in any news website tells you that it’s the same around the world. And it’s hardly Armageddon that you can’t get a McDonald’s milkshake! Voters are mainly still grateful to be getting back to some sort of normal. Very few people think that the world essentially shutting for two years wouldn’t have major repercussions so no one is blaming the Tories for anything that has its origins in COVID so it’s providing good ‘cover’ and quite frankly Labour look stupid doing so

The Tory party ask for your vote not your heart and they do not lecture, belittle and insult the very people they need to vote for them. The Tory party is not a cult. They list their policies and ask people to vote for them. Labour list their policies and then tell everyone that doesn’t whole wholeheartedly agree and endorse every word that they are thick, misogynistic, racist, and actually tells them they don’t want their vote. They want to tell you how to think and speak and police it venomously. Even if you think the trans issue is niche, the general outpouring of utter woke nonsense from Labour just puts people off. As PP have said, most people are small ‘c’ conservative so this just pushes them away. And blaming the media just annoys people as it’s basically continuing the rhetoric that people are all so thick that they can’t see the ‘truth’ as laid out by Labour which is kind of ironic. And it’s hard to blame the media when you have actual MPs tweeting their wokeness direct to the world.

Because it’s not a cult, the Tory party changes leaders like socks. There is a bit of political intrigue and then it’s fine. Boris is the first ‘popular’ leader they’ve had in a while so probably a few people did vote for him but mostly people voted for their perception of good policies not the leader who could change any day so boris isn’t the liability he should be. And everyone knows that the minute he becomes one, the Tories will dispatch him effortlessly.

Most people vote for themselves and their families. The Tory party ask voters to vote for what they think is best for themselves and their families and position themselves accordingly. Labour ask voters to vote for what’s best for society and claim they can deliver this utopia. Voters don’t believe them but even if they do, mostly people care more about themselves and their families 🤷‍♀️

I could go on but I won’t mainly because generally the Labour voters that ask this question just launch into a load of whataboutery but that is my opinion.

Spot on.

@Effic

Why (I think) people vote Tory & they are still ahead in the polls ….

Euro scepticism/ Brexit - it’s not a new thing. Tories were the only party to show some critical thinking around Europe and appeared to ‘listen’ to voters concerns and issues. Labour just called them all racist thickos. But the concerns of these voters (which they were told were unequivocally wrong) now appear correct. Working class people said that cheap foreign labour was driving down wages and working conditions …… they were absolutely told how wrong/thick/racist they were but now the situation around firstly hospitality workers and now lorry drivers seems to be confirming what they already thought. Wages are going up in both industries due to a shortage of staff and employers can no longer treat them like shit knowing there is an endless supply cos there isn’t. Care workers will be next I think. That’s a lot of people’s lived reality at the moment.

Current shortages ….. a few clicks in any news website tells you that it’s the same around the world. And it’s hardly Armageddon that you can’t get a McDonald’s milkshake! Voters are mainly still grateful to be getting back to some sort of normal. Very few people think that the world essentially shutting for two years wouldn’t have major repercussions so no one is blaming the Tories for anything that has its origins in COVID so it’s providing good ‘cover’ and quite frankly Labour look stupid doing so

The Tory party ask for your vote not your heart and they do not lecture, belittle and insult the very people they need to vote for them. The Tory party is not a cult. They list their policies and ask people to vote for them. Labour list their policies and then tell everyone that doesn’t whole wholeheartedly agree and endorse every word that they are thick, misogynistic, racist, and actually tells them they don’t want their vote. They want to tell you how to think and speak and police it venomously. Even if you think the trans issue is niche, the general outpouring of utter woke nonsense from Labour just puts people off. As PP have said, most people are small ‘c’ conservative so this just pushes them away. And blaming the media just annoys people as it’s basically continuing the rhetoric that people are all so thick that they can’t see the ‘truth’ as laid out by Labour which is kind of ironic. And it’s hard to blame the media when you have actual MPs tweeting their wokeness direct to the world.

Because it’s not a cult, the Tory party changes leaders like socks. There is a bit of political intrigue and then it’s fine. Boris is the first ‘popular’ leader they’ve had in a while so probably a few people did vote for him but mostly people voted for their perception of good policies not the leader who could change any day so boris isn’t the liability he should be. And everyone knows that the minute he becomes one, the Tories will dispatch him effortlessly.

Most people vote for themselves and their families. The Tory party ask voters to vote for what they think is best for themselves and their families and position themselves accordingly. Labour ask voters to vote for what’s best for society and claim they can deliver this utopia. Voters don’t believe them but even if they do, mostly people care more about themselves and their families 🤷‍♀️

I could go on but I won’t mainly because generally the Labour voters that ask this question just launch into a load of whataboutery but that is my opinion.

Perfectly put

@Desmorelda

Corbyn has gone now. So corruption, lying, cronyism is tolerated because another party is worse. But that party hasn't been in power for years and a new leader has been elected who actually seems decent. Unhinged lunatics....In what respect ? It's that kind of exaggeration I don't get. How can an opposition be shittier ? I really don't recall labour being quite as corrupt ?

*On a recent thread about Angela Rayner's choice language most posters were incensed that the PM had been subjected to such insults and felt that this genuinely made the opposition unelectable, such was her threat to the moral fabric of the UK*

Not sure you can talk about exaggeration when youve posted the above

But for whats its worth my stance is pretty much what backoffice said, i really really don’t understand it but countless times ive heard ‘it would be worse if labour were in’ based on nothing

I think a lot of people are centerist and bobble around the middle and Corbyn was just too left for them (personally i think the conservatives are moving further right)

And everyone knows that the minute he becomes one, the Tories will dispatch him effortlessly.

Agree with everything else, but they took a long time to get rid of May!

However, I think your point still stands because I doubt that anyone will be spitting at anyone else at the Tory conference for being a Cameronite or a Mayite.

I also haven’t heard anything about threats to female MPs from within the party.

You’ve got it wrong, it’s not what the tories have to do to loose, it’s what Labour has to do to win and that’s form even a remote semblance of an actual political party.

And thats a very good post of effic

Have a credible opponent.

@Lottapianos

'i voted Tory because having Corbyn and Labour as it was in charge was unthinkable'

I fully get why voting for Labour under Corbyn was not an option. I felt that way myself. But to give your vote to the Tories? That I do not get. Not for a second

And Johnson seems to do no wrong in some people's eyes, despite him being a racist, misogynist, self serving, incompetent, complacent, proven liar. He turns my stomach. I never could see the appeal but now no one can claim they are unaware of what you might politely call his shortcomings

Labour fans accusing the Tories of racism and misogyny - talk about pot and kettle!

The one thing I really like about the Tories is their diversity, actually. Two women PMs/leaders, and the most diverse Cabinet ever.

Look at the appalling anti-Semitism all the way to the top of the Labour party, sustained for years. And look at the lack of women leaders, and KS saying it's not right to say only women have a cervix.

Absolutely disgusting and it turns my stomach. I agree the Tories are shit right now, no question, but these two issues with the Labour party are MASSIVE, and I could never vote for them because of them.

There is no credible alternative to the Tories right now.

'Labour fans accusing the Tories of racism and misogyny - talk about pot and kettle!'

Can both things not be true? The Tory leader is a racist, misogynist idiot AND there is a huge problem with misogyny and anti-Semitism in the Labour Party?

I would never vote Tory, usually I’m a labour voter but having issues with them and women’s rights. If an election was called tomorrow I’d probably spoil my ballot (nb this the way to protest, if you don’t vote that is taken as not caring not as a protest)

@CamillaRose

I agree with you that at least the Tories know what a woman is but could never vote for them ever ever ever. However I will not vote for Labour (usually do) or Liberals, in fact I doubt I will vote for anyone. This pisses me off because of what a struggle women had to get the vote anyway!!!

Effic’s got it spot on.
Look at Germany-16 years of centre right, now centre left-and I bet the vast majority of things will remain exactly the same because they are both pragmatically focused on the ‘centre’ rather than left or right. By posturing around as a cult, Labour have broken the pact of centrism and allowed to Tories to slide stealthily rightward, harming the very people that Labour pretend to care about.

@Effic

Why (I think) people vote Tory & they are still ahead in the polls ….

Euro scepticism/ Brexit - it’s not a new thing. Tories were the only party to show some critical thinking around Europe and appeared to ‘listen’ to voters concerns and issues. Labour just called them all racist thickos. But the concerns of these voters (which they were told were unequivocally wrong) now appear correct. Working class people said that cheap foreign labour was driving down wages and working conditions …… they were absolutely told how wrong/thick/racist they were but now the situation around firstly hospitality workers and now lorry drivers seems to be confirming what they already thought. Wages are going up in both industries due to a shortage of staff and employers can no longer treat them like shit knowing there is an endless supply cos there isn’t. Care workers will be next I think. That’s a lot of people’s lived reality at the moment.

Current shortages ….. a few clicks in any news website tells you that it’s the same around the world. And it’s hardly Armageddon that you can’t get a McDonald’s milkshake! Voters are mainly still grateful to be getting back to some sort of normal. Very few people think that the world essentially shutting for two years wouldn’t have major repercussions so no one is blaming the Tories for anything that has its origins in COVID so it’s providing good ‘cover’ and quite frankly Labour look stupid doing so

The Tory party ask for your vote not your heart and they do not lecture, belittle and insult the very people they need to vote for them. The Tory party is not a cult. They list their policies and ask people to vote for them. Labour list their policies and then tell everyone that doesn’t whole wholeheartedly agree and endorse every word that they are thick, misogynistic, racist, and actually tells them they don’t want their vote. They want to tell you how to think and speak and police it venomously. Even if you think the trans issue is niche, the general outpouring of utter woke nonsense from Labour just puts people off. As PP have said, most people are small ‘c’ conservative so this just pushes them away. And blaming the media just annoys people as it’s basically continuing the rhetoric that people are all so thick that they can’t see the ‘truth’ as laid out by Labour which is kind of ironic. And it’s hard to blame the media when you have actual MPs tweeting their wokeness direct to the world.

Because it’s not a cult, the Tory party changes leaders like socks. There is a bit of political intrigue and then it’s fine. Boris is the first ‘popular’ leader they’ve had in a while so probably a few people did vote for him but mostly people voted for their perception of good policies not the leader who could change any day so boris isn’t the liability he should be. And everyone knows that the minute he becomes one, the Tories will dispatch him effortlessly.

Most people vote for themselves and their families. The Tory party ask voters to vote for what they think is best for themselves and their families and position themselves accordingly. Labour ask voters to vote for what’s best for society and claim they can deliver this utopia. Voters don’t believe them but even if they do, mostly people care more about themselves and their families 🤷‍♀️

I could go on but I won’t mainly because generally the Labour voters that ask this question just launch into a load of whataboutery but that is my opinion.

Nailed it right here.

If only Labour read this and changed accordingly, they’d walk the next election.

They won’t though.

Too busy patting themselves on the back for their virtuous ideology to see that they’ll never have a chance to do any good if they don’t appeal to the majority of voters, rather than just die-hard party loyalists.

It’s like Tony Blair never happened.

By posturing around as a cult, Labour have broken the pact of centrism and allowed to Tories to slide stealthily rightward, harming the very people that Labour pretend to care about.

Absolutely.

Fuckwits.

So many people saying “Labour are worse”. Worse at winning elections maybe. But worse at running the country, no way. Somehow the idea that Tories are safe, competent and the natural party of government clings on despite this lot demonstrating their lack of principles, incompetence and arrogance day after day, with real damage as a result.

• The Afghanistan shit-show. The French started evacuating in May FFS. We had Raab not answering the phone and an email inbox that wasn’t being checked.
• PPE corruption. No proper procurement process or transparency, Tories’ mates given a hotline. And millions wasted where the equipment wasn’t useable.

Johnson lying in Parliament over and over again.

• Hard Brexit. The main aim of this government is to force through something that screws up the Good Friday Agreement, costs us more than we ever paid to the EU, leaves us without workers to transport goods or pick our fruit & veg, and destroys our international credibility.
• Covid mismanagement. Yes, the NHS sorted vaccines, but all that shit about ‘saving Christmas’ then sending schools back for one day, the track and trace mess, “let the bodies pile high”, sending people with Covid into care homes etc. etc.
• Breaking the pledge on foreign aid, slashing aid to desperate people in places like Yemen and Syria.

And so much more including things which people ought to be concerned about but aren’t, like the cruelty of Patel’s anti-refugee plans, the incompetence and half-heartedness of their climate change response, letting ministers break the ministerial code with impunity... And after all that, people just shrug their shoulders and say “Labour are worse.” Where the hell are people getting that from? Why do they not care about any of this shit?

Labour seem to enjoy alienating once loyal voters. It's mine-bogglingly stupid to fuck off so many women (and men) when keeping their core voters is the bare minimum they have to achieve if they're to have any hope of a credible election performance. I say this as a former member and activist who still can't believe what's become of my party.

@Lottapianos

'Labour fans accusing the Tories of racism and misogyny - talk about pot and kettle!'

Can both things not be true? The Tory leader is a racist, misogynist idiot AND there is a huge problem with misogyny and anti-Semitism in the Labour Party?

Yes it can

But there are a fair few posters on mumsnet that don’t believe you can hold both views

Say labour are crap…and youre a tory

Say the tories are crap…..and you’re labour through and through

Agree that the Tories are incompetent and corrupt and no friends of women but Labour are still worse on women's rights. This is my line in the sand and I'm not alone.

It's just astonishing isn't it.
Worse, Tories know how faithful their vote is.

My predictions is that Johnson will stir up trouble in NI then blame the EU to distract from the shitshow he's created. Voters will fall for it, think he's some sort of hero standing up against 'bullies' he knows it and it doesn't matter what the consequences for people's lives.

Really good post @Effic and sums up the situation perfectly. Why would most voters vote 'for the good of society' if those policies and that party are going to shaft them and their family? They're not.

PurpleParrotFish I suppose, from a voters point of view, it's like having to choose who babysits your kid in an emergency. That creepy uncle or the reckless drunken aunt.

I know it's a fallacy that the tories are better at running the economy and are more competent, but Jeremy Corbyn scared the willies out of everyone because he was viewed as a communist throwback and not leadership material whatsoever. I've never known a worse crop of politicians, on both sides.

I wonder this a lot and the situation is pretty grim in part due to the Labour party not being able to get its shit together.

The only way out I can see is for all the opposition parties to form a progressive alliance and divvy up all (or at least most) seats between them in terms of the ones they think they're best placed to win. Then there is literally one serious anti tory option in each seat. The coalition (led by Labour but ideally with significant numbers of SNP, Greens, Lib Dems and some others )would then win. But ain't gonna happen at least not at a national level.

As it stands it would appear whatever the tories do next they will still win the next election. I don't think they'll get more than half of the popular vote though.

So many people saying “Labour are worse”. Worse at winning elections maybe. But worse at running the country, no way.

But so many of the people who criticise the last Labour government are in the Labour Party.

It’s true that Cameron tried to distance himself from the ‘nasty party’, but I don’t think a Conservative would call another Conservative ‘Thatcherite scum’.

It’s not clear which of the last Labour governments has the general support of the Labour Party - Attlee’s?

Things will have to get a lot worse for a lot of people for the Tories to lose the next election. I find it mind boggling we have so many cap-doffing people in this country who would actually choose the embarrassing joke that is Johnson, over Starmer - who comes across as decent, intelligent and hard-working. Johnson, who has delivered us the worst version of Brexit possible, who embarrasses us on the world stage, who can't get a grip on crises, who takes money from those least able to pay it whilst giving his loaded mates lucrative contracts for doing a rubbish job. Still - that's where we are, and as long as Love Island or something equally mindless is on TV, the masses are happy.