Anyone follow the coverage of the Sarah Everard case today and want to vent?

[HangingOver]

I'm home alone today and except for whatsapping my friends have nothing to do with this incandescent rage and hopeless sadness.

Anyone else need to talk?

I feel so sorry for the couple who witnessed her getting arrested and just thought he was undercover police. Their lives won't ever be the same after this.

It's horrific. And I for one am surprised that things like warrant cards and kit aren't routinely handed in after a shift. Surely this leaves them open to abuse?

It's a touchy subject I know. And tell me if I'm wrong... But... We need to raise children better. Some people are not made to be parents. Some people haven't got the mental health to bring up kind, empathetic, hard working, caring men.

It starts at birth. There needs to be more systems in place to help those that need it. And stop anything happening before it happens.

I'm not very articulate so I'm not sure if this comes across right. But there's something in the way people are bought up that causes such haeatless and cruel men.

Nature or nurture, I'm not sure.

The worst thing about this is that she stood absolutely no chance. If I was being followed and realised I might run, or take an erratic route, or make my way to a brightly lit shop. But if a police officer arrested me? I wouldn’t resist. I couldn’t resist.

I’m furious with our society for this being too common a thing, but mostly I’m furious with the MPS for not suspending him and taking his warrant card when he had been accused of flashing just a few days before. They should be answerable for what the ever loving fuck they were playing at.

I was horrified reading about it earlier. Poor Sarah and her poor family.

I'm astounded that police officers are allowed and regularly do, take their handcuffs, batons, pepper spray etc. home with them. I don't care how "convenient" it is for them, at the end of their shift, they should be leaving all of that stuff, including their warrant card, in their locker at work, or even sign them back in at the end of a shift.
This is equipment that gives the police power over the rest of us. They have no business having it on their person when they're off duty.

I kind of hope he ends up in general population prison, but he won't. He'll be cosseted and protected for his entire sentence.

I don’t trust the Police at all. Poor Sarah...

@LukeEvansWife for me it's the blatant abuse of power and the fact that this could have been any of us.

@MobyDicksTinyCanoe

I feel so sorry for the couple who witnessed her getting arrested and just thought he was undercover police. Their lives won't ever be the same after this.

It's horrific. And I for one am surprised that things like warrant cards and kit aren't routinely handed in after a shift. Surely this leaves them open to abuse?

I lived with a Met police officer. Their WCs are meant to be with them at all times. They use it for free travel. It’s expected of them to have it with them, but perhaps it shouldn’t be.

I’ve witnessed people being arrested, and I’ve seen videos on FB, I’ve never thought to intervene. You just assume the police are doing their job and aren’t stealing people off the street. Hell, people watched George Floyd be killed by a policeman right in front of them and while some verbally tried to intervene, nobody physically stepped in. That’s how powerful having a police uniform is. They have an automatic assumption of being in the right attached to that uniform/warrant card and our instinct is not to question them. None of the people who witnessed her being arrested could have known anything was wrong that night.

As someone else has said, I've also hung around in view if I see something that looks suspect such as a young person being approached by a police officer etc incase I can provide a witness statement if needed but I don't think I'd ever have the guts to "step in" if it looked/sounded legit. I've also befriended very drunk lone girls getting pestered by similarly drunk lads on the way home walking through parks when I've been sober as I'd hate for anything to happen to them if I didn't, but again, I don't think I'd step in if it felt legit. Which is the saddest thing about it, for me.

Surely it's because she was just doing something very ordinary, walking home, and she was killed by a policeman who she had no previous contact with.

That's why it's affected people so much, I don't know how you don't get that.

When women are killed by their boyfriends then we can tell ourselves that something like that wouldn't happen to us because we wouldn't go out with a nutter.

But you can't tell yourself that you will never walk down the street - so it could happen to you.

I was absolutely brought up to trust and respect the police. If you get lost, ask a policeman. Then in my twenties I needed the police and... long story but they were absolute bastards.

Consequently I've brought my dc up to be wary of the police. Not that that would help anyone if they were being handcuffed and kidnapped.

@Ifyoudontlikeitdosomethingelse

It's a touchy subject I know. And tell me if I'm wrong... But... We need to raise children better. Some people are not made to be parents. Some people haven't got the mental health to bring up kind, empathetic, hard working, caring men.

It starts at birth. There needs to be more systems in place to help those that need it. And stop anything happening before it happens.

I'm not very articulate so I'm not sure if this comes across right. But there's something in the way people are bought up that causes such haeatless and cruel men.

Nature or nurture, I'm not sure.

Hmm whilst undoubtedly upbringing plays a part, I don't think that's the only factor, and its actually upsetting to suggest it is. That said, of course having a supportive upbringing is beneficial.

@Notjustanymum

I don’t trust the Police at all. Poor Sarah...

@Notjustanymum

It's a bit silly to say you don't trust the police at all.
I still trust them. I'd still ring 999 and ask for police if I needed them. I wouldn't try and sort out justice on my own.

We would all still lean on the police if we were in an emergency and needed their help.

It's absolutely heartbreaking, I can't even begin to imagine how her family and friends are managing to listen to the details of what he did to their beautiful Sarah. I really hope this brings about some change, enough is enough. Also I don't think many people would intervene with someone being arrested, I've certainly never heard of anyone doing so, why would you? Obviously in hindsight in this case yes, but sadly it would have just looked like someone being handcuffed and complying.

@RiotAtTheRodeo

Absolutely sick making. How fucking terrified she must have been. Reminds me of that awful case a few years ago where journalist Kim Wall was brutally murdered by that Danish inventor in his submarine. No way of running, no way of escaping, for either Sarah or Kim.

The Kim Wall case is one I wish I'd never heard about. Utterly miserable. There are some evil shits in this world.

Even if that couple who saw him "arresting" Sarah had gone over to intervene, he would have just shown them his warrant card and they'd have no doubt gone on their way.

I don't think I'll be trusting lone police officers now. I won't be going anywhere near them unless they're in pairs.

@MobyDicksTinyCanoe

I feel so sorry for the couple who witnessed her getting arrested and just thought he was undercover police. Their lives won't ever be the same after this.

It's horrific. And I for one am surprised that things like warrant cards and kit aren't routinely handed in after a shift. Surely this leaves them open to abuse?

I feel so much for that couple too. What an awful thing to live with. But of course they weren’t to know, at all.

@Ploorfuzzle

No, of course it's not the only factor. But it's the beginning one. It's the one we start with.

@Claudethecat

Do you expect her father or boyfriend to take some responsibility

Christ, I never said anything even remotely along those lines, and it's a horrible thing to suggest that I am. I'm not going to argue with you on this as the whole thing is just too bloody upsetting and sickening.

Yes you did. You said, Men must take some collective responsibility for the fact that women are routinely murdered, raped, sexually assaulted, beaten up, harassed. Her father or boyfriend are men so you are saying the have to take some collective responsibility.

I'm a similar age — I know so many people who've grown up in various places around the country, went to university, then got a job in London. Had a couple of siblings, phoned her mum most days etc.

For me, it's because her life was instantly relatable to me — all deaths are awful and shouldn't happen, but when it's a random attack, and in somebody who could easily be one of your friends in think it gets to you a bit more.

Added to that, it's a police officer. Middle class white young women are in general taught that the police will help you. You'd never imagine that he'd do what he did — he chose somebody he thought would trust/obey him. I know it sounds like I'm exaggerating, but I actually feel a bit sick when I think of how she must have felt when she realised, and how there were chances before for the police that weren't taken that would have stopped it from happening.

Collective responsibility means everyone. So yes, her brother and father, would need to examine the way they live and have lived and what they can do to make a change.

The vigils etc for Sarah were fairly high profile but I want to know what about this specific case has started all of it.

Her friends were very pro-active on social media when she was missing so we were all invested in the outcome. Then it turned out that she had done everything you're advised to. She left her friend's house at a reasonable time, walked along busy well-lit streets, was wearing sensible clothes, and she was kidapped by a serving police officer.

@Bagelsandbrie

Such horrific circumstances.

What do we tell our children about the police after this? That we should continue to trust them, to get in a car with them if asked to? Or should be all be telling our children not to go with an officer in these sorts of circumstances, even if it means they may get in bigger trouble if it’s legit? Genuinely just so awful. He was in such a position of power.

My dad is a retired police officer, I have always loved the police and I think of my dad every time I see an officer, he was a great and caring officer and my absolute hero! However, unfortunately, this case has made even me no longer trust them! I just don't see them in the same way anyway unfortunately

I don't actually know what to do with this information. I feel so sick for that poor woman and what she went through, but that doesn't help anyone.

More than anything else, I fear for myself, my daughter, my sister, my niece, my mother... I know if a "policeman" approached me and "arrested" me, I'd go with them. I know that I've taught my autistic DC that if they find themselves lost or distressed eg at a train station, to find someone in uniform.

It is no surprise that predators manipulate the system in order to predate (see also the Church, the scouting movement, teaching, medicine etc etc etc), but I absolutely cannot get over the feeling that the Met Police are complicit in this. That the indecent exposure charge was viewed as "just lads' banter", getting your cock out in public. That Cressida Dick, particularly, is a massive part of the problem while seeming to be part of the solution.

Will women out in public ever feel really safe again?

It’s because she could have been any one of us. Walking home on a well lit, well populated route, she had sensible shoes on (I believe, trainers?) she should have been safe. She had every right to make it home that night. But she didn’t because one man abused his position and a whole police force did nothing to stop him.

[quote Ifyoudontlikeitdosomethingelse]@Ploorfuzzle

No, of course it's not the only factor. But it's the beginning one. It's the one we start with.[/quote]
How do you propose doing this?