13:36 CandidaAlbicans2 I obviously didn't explain clearly what I meant - DS contacted his team mates because we said we weren't going to sort it any more, especially as DD had been sorting herself out younger - but DS's team mates just didn't reply, or replied to say that they didn't know and his mum should talk to their mums, or replied ignoring the car pool questions and talking about the actual football - all in all being useless which rather blocked him from organising with his teammates.
DD's friends, like her, had been checking with their own parents/ family calendar, calling friends, they checked with their parents, from age about 13. DD says "I said you'd take on Monday and fetch on Wednesday, L's parents will fetch on Monday, and take on Wednesday, H's wil take us to the match on Saturday and stay and watch... I've put it all in the calendar"
DS's friends just say "dunno, get your mum to ask my mum" or ignore texts about organising lifts completely, or reply ignoring the question and discussing something else, leaving it almost impossible for DS to organise anything.
We live 5 miles from training and sometimes up to 40 miles from matches but for both football kids there are other kids from our village and the next who play on the same teams so we've always car pooled (rural).
DS has actually cycled to training today as the neighbour kid we always car pool with is ill, and that would be a way for him to take control for himself, but the mum of the kid we car pool with is a sort of friend through very long acquaintanceship, and is absolutely adamant that cycling ten miles and training for 90 minutes would be too much for her "little" boy (who is actually six months older than DS and in good health...).
I think my point is that its almost institutional - trying to bring a teen boy up to carry his own mental load hits unexpected obstacles in the form of other families not expecting the same of their teen boys, and babying them longer than their girls. Infuriating but hard to address alone!