For those with high achievers - how (honesty please!)

[1AngelicFruitCake]

As the title! Inspired by the thread about why people don’t confess to tutoring their children. If your child is in the ‘exceeding/above expectations’ range then what is it you do at home to help?

@Bryonyshcmyony

I don't think reading is as important as mumsnet thinks it is.

I'd argue it is, it stimulates their brain with patterns and narratives, massively improves their vocabulary and aids communication skills. That's without the actual content of the stuff they read, too, so they're picking up lots of new knowledge alongside everything else.

Some is innate - I have 2, different types of intelligence, but both bright (one extremely so), but one of the biggest things is they are both driven, competitive, love learning. DH and I are similar. Hard to know what's genetic and what is due to how we've raised them due to being high performers ourselves.

DD isn't curious though. She works hard, is conscientious and has natural talents, BUT she has little curiosity about the world. DS OTOH is like a walking wikipedia, in addition to DD's habits/skills, he reads and reads and questions and researches and I am fairly certain he will pull far ahead as a result.

How do we support? Encouragement and praise for effort, provide lots of books, help them pursue their interests by researching things with them, find them suitable books to extend their learning, visit museums etc.

But one of the biggest things besides reading is the discussions we have. If they ask a question then they get a proper response, and if we don't know the answer we research with them. Discussions at home and out and about can be really deep. I don't treat them as children, but mini-adults deserving of proper, considered answers and discussion. I don't brush off a question with a quick answer, or platitude. If I can't discuss there and then we pick it up at dinner or something.

I do think MN has a tendency to dimiss other sources of information other than reading.

It's not always great when you have a child that despite all your efforts getting them past their problems still hasn't taken to reading for pleasure- but DD1 has good GCSE and picks up information from Radio4, TV documentaries, you tube - people doing stuff and trying things herself- so make links and retains information - and has embraced podcastsand audio books.

@randomlyLostInWales

I do think MN has a tendency to dimiss other sources of information other than reading.

It's not always great when you have a child that despite all your efforts getting them past their problems still hasn't taken to reading for pleasure- but DD1 has good GCSE and picks up information from Radio4, TV documentaries, you tube - people doing stuff and trying things herself- so make links and retains information - and has embraced podcastsand audio books.

I agree. Also I know a fair few kids with their noses stuck in a book that aren't at all academic. Most of them are good at English, but science/maths/geography not so much.

I think reading is one of the most important factors. There is so much you can learn from books and can fill in the gaps of, and extend, a poor education.

I went to a so-so comp, but read voraciously and did really well academically, and then to elite universities, and even now 20+ years later, so many things I know and use are from books (novels and non-fic) rather than formal education.

Give them your time.

In primary I spent hours reading to and with them and 30 mins per night on spellings. She was a natural at maths but had to work on the rest.

Year 7 I sat a couple of hours a night supporting her with homework she was mature enough to do alone.

Fast forward a few years she got exceptionally high levels in all subjects in gcses, then A levels then a first class masters degree.

She now teaches maths in a secondary school in a very deprived area to help give those kids a chance.

Nothing. It’s innate. DD is very bright and very lazy. Hates reading or anything requiring effort but grasps things quickly and just seems to retain stuff. I’ve never done anything special with her, benign neglect really, we’ve always been so busy working she’s had to be independent.

I don't see any need for secrecy about helping your children in any way but you don't talk to everyone about everything. Also our children are entitled to some confidentiality.

We never did anything formally but, like others here, there was much reading, discussion and encouragement with our child's own talents. He wasn't one who would have been pushed into anything anyway and we were never pushy or particularly strict; he knew what was important to him so we mainly let him take the lead. It worked out.

Nothing, DC2 is just bright and curious by nature. But also incredibly stubborn, so there would be no point of me telling her that let's sit down and do some work. She will do it when she wants to. Well maybe just providing the environment as we are both quite academic, so the books around the house, the TV programmes we choose etc all reflect that.

We have a tutor for DC1 who actually needs the extra help.

Not an awful lot, dd1 was born clever🤷‍♀️ Dd2/3 not so much

"Talking to us like adults from a very young age. Children are very intelligent, they (mostly) are able to understand normal topics and follow conversations just like adults would. It engages their brain to think in a different, more challenging way."

Absolutely. We had a discussion at dinner this week on abortion, with DC aged 7 and 11, looking at all sides of the debate. Similar on stock market, Afghanistan withdrawal, structural inequality. Children are naturally intelligent and curious. Rather than telling them an answer we would naturally coach them through thinking about all sides of an issue, prompt them to consider what the consequences might be etc.

I sometimes volunteer to give science talks and workshops in schools and have delivered GCSE topics to 6 year olds, you just need to think creatively about how to do it, plenty of analogies they'll understand etc.

@GruntBaby

I think reading is one of the most important factors. There is so much you can learn from books and can fill in the gaps of, and extend, a poor education.

I went to a so-so comp, but read voraciously and did really well academically, and then to elite universities, and even now 20+ years later, so many things I know and use are from books (novels and non-fic) rather than formal education.

I agree this was why DH and I did well - that and there was occasionally education TV - I learnt a lot watching my DDad OU programs as a child - plus before I left home they was a spate of budegting programs with Alvin Hall and the bank of Mum and Dad that and a book taught me how to manage money.

I did try and get all our children reading - filled house with books of all types, tried comics and magazines bought kindles and then audio books.

I just think think tech has moved on in last 20 years and given many children - not all- more options.

DragonBox is a gamificationof algerbra we had kids who hated maths come over and want to play it as a game as it was fun - I think some sites like duolingo,bluetick,tassomai and seneca can be better than reading text books. One of the games DD1 plays helped her learn and practise budgeting which helped built on what we and the school had tried to teach.

Youtube depends on what they are watching - there's loads of fun educational sites as well as more exams support sites. Plus streaming means it's easier to consume educational entertainment - things like QI, The Great British Sewing Bee , bake off, documentaries.

Yes agree that there are more possibilities to extend learning these days, which are also valuable. If DS expresses an interest in submarines sometimes I'll find a book with him, sometimes find a documentary on youtube.

I'd argue it is, it stimulates their brain with patterns and narratives, massively improves their vocabulary and aids communication skills. That's without the actual content of the stuff they read, too, so they're picking up lots of new knowledge alongside everything else.

That’s a response to someone saying reading is not be all and end all, sry don’t know how to quote multiple posts & responses.

I disagree. I’ve had several go through school and some out of uni, some me still in. The most successful of my kids are the ones who stopped reading the second they passed readers in primary. No interest in it whatsoever. So outside readers in primary school the only things they have ever read were the compulsory novels in basic English level in high school. And that was a struggle whipping them to do so. All of these ones excelled in maths and science (physics/chem) and used those strengths to get into top uni courses. They have top jobs, are interesting people, knowledgeable on a really broad information base, hold interesting conversations. They don’t read and never have.

My kids who were verocious readers from young, right through high school never reached the same academic level as my non-reading maths/science whizz’s, nor post school&uni job prospects. Big difference in outcomes.

Have only read first and last page so don’t know about content in-between but OP post seems odd and pushy with kids. If kids are bright they will achieve, if not they won’t. You don’t have to ‘do’ anything. Only exception being SN that may be confounders and are not addressed.

It's something that can't be forced, they either have it or they dont.
Regardless of background, education, class, etc.
Sometimes.you will find high achievers have had to overcome adversity in younger years.

The idea that 'they have it or they don't' is very convenient for all those people in the establishment - and currently in governmental power - who have loads of money and who went to (the same) expensive private schools though isn't it?

You may as well say test them at 4 and decide what quality of education they should be given. Actually you would find that the kids who have been read to, talked with, given cultural experiences etc have magically 'got it'.

My are grown up now. Both got top grades in exams and 1sts at uni. Not geniuses but bright, that's in the genes.
One big difference in their early childhood in the 90s would be no parents distracted by phones.
If I could narrow it down I'd say attention from one or other parent all the time from the very start. Talking about and questioning everything. Yes reading is important but not so much as this thread would suggest.

One small example. DH very science / maths oriented (DC both did STEM degrees). He would turn everything into an experiment whether it was making a volcano with kitchen chemicals or building a rocket.
I was the less fun parent who made them do their homework.
No tutoring or private schools, just local comp.

I read prolifically to all of my children since they were born. One is a very high achiever without doing any work, one is a very high achiever because of the amount of work she does and one has learning difficulties and will never be more than average at best. Reading alone does not produce high achievers.

@ThePlantsitter

The idea that 'they have it or they don't' is very convenient for all those people in the establishment - and currently in governmental power - who have loads of money and who went to (the same) expensive private schools though isn't it?

You may as well say test them at 4 and decide what quality of education they should be given. Actually you would find that the kids who have been read to, talked with, given cultural experiences etc have magically 'got it'.

Then how do you explain different levels of achievement among siblings?

No of course it's not the case of having it or not. If DC2 was born into more unfortunate circumstances, the outcome would also be different. But if she is doing better than some other children then that's nothing to do with effort that I put into it. And if another child is not doing so well, it's not necessarily due to lack of parental effort. As said, we have put a lot more effort into DC1 but he's still just average or below.

Then how do you explain different levels of achievement among siblings?

I don't explain it: I don't know. It's not as simple as 'having it' or not having it though. Of course some things and abilities are innate but I think that's more about how people respond to various stimuli than magically being 'clever'. That's what education at school and at home is all about isn't it.

@Bryonyshcmyony

I don't think reading is as important as mumsnet thinks it is.

There are many studies which disagree with you.

@HoppingPavlova

I'd argue it is, it stimulates their brain with patterns and narratives, massively improves their vocabulary and aids communication skills. That's without the actual content of the stuff they read, too, so they're picking up lots of new knowledge alongside everything else.

That’s a response to someone saying reading is not be all and end all, sry don’t know how to quote multiple posts & responses.

I disagree. I’ve had several go through school and some out of uni, some me still in. The most successful of my kids are the ones who stopped reading the second they passed readers in primary. No interest in it whatsoever. So outside readers in primary school the only things they have ever read were the compulsory novels in basic English level in high school. And that was a struggle whipping them to do so. All of these ones excelled in maths and science (physics/chem) and used those strengths to get into top uni courses. They have top jobs, are interesting people, knowledgeable on a really broad information base, hold interesting conversations. They don’t read and never have.

My kids who were verocious readers from young, right through high school never reached the same academic level as my non-reading maths/science whizz’s, nor post school&uni job prospects. Big difference in outcomes.

Have only read first and last page so don’t know about content in-between but OP post seems odd and pushy with kids. If kids are bright they will achieve, if not they won’t. You don’t have to ‘do’ anything. Only exception being SN that may be confounders and are not addressed.

Thank you to the further contributions, I really do find it so interesting.

HoppingPavalova your response that my post seems ‘odd and pushy’ is exactly why this can’t easily be discussed with other parents for fear of ridicule or judgement! My children are good all rounders but aren’t outstanding academically and that is fine, I don’t expect them to be or necessarily want them to be. My post was asking how to help them move on further than the level they’re already at, so they can achieve to the best of their ability. I don’t count myself as a clever person but I am hardworking and want the best for my children and if asking for practical ideas helps me to better support my children then I’m going to do it. Not sure what is ‘odd and pushy’ about that!

Reading is important, but kids absorb information from some unexpected sources.

My eldest was at One Day School, for enhancement, and I was rather stunned to learn at the end of one day that she was extremely well informed about star constellations. Apparently she'd learned all about it from the Barbie movie she'd been obsessing over!

Films and audiobooks are good but reading is such a joy.