For those with high achievers - how (honesty please!)

[1AngelicFruitCake]

As the title! Inspired by the thread about why people don’t confess to tutoring their children. If your child is in the ‘exceeding/above expectations’ range then what is it you do at home to help?

@HamBone what a prat. My fil tried to do the same

@DancingDaughter50 Yes, it’s important to cultivate personal responsibility. DH and I phrase it as having more choices-if they make an effort, they’ll have more choices. If they don’t try and end up with poor results, their choices will be more limited.

Standing over them micromanaging isn’t helpful, imo.

Op my other dc is a really creative thinker, I'm exited if she got into science or something because unless school dribs it out she's got that amazing thinking out of the box ability.
Shes not a reader.

I get info in by more creative means and films, documentary even if she's not watching she can hear it or interesting podcasts!

Please anyone reading this who doesn't have a reader, don't dispare

Honestly academics aren't that important. I say that as something who was top of the class/year in nearly all subjects throughout all my school years. My mum never let me out of the house and controlled everything in my life down to when I could take a piss.

I got a place at Oxford but crashed and burned badly as at 18 I had no resilience, self-reliance, absolutely zero life skills. Ended up depressed, self harming the whole works. Dropped out after Christmas and ended up going to uni at home. In the whole 3 years I never spoke to anybody so got a 2:1 but had no chance of getting a job.

Luckily I got a place on an IT training scheme but again on the work experience part of it crashed. Think vomiting in the toilet through nerves at taking phone calls from customers.

It's only through sheer luck I found an employer who supported me and eventually I developed some self confidence. My career took a few more turns but I've been in my current job 10 years and am very well paid but very bored.

All the time as a kid reading, studying etc. It wasn't a life. I wish my mum had let me live a little but they didn't.

I'm 40 now and resent her completely.

So if your kid isn't a genius who cares? Are they happy, experiencing life? If so give them a hug and tell them you're proud they tried their best.

OP, the answer in my case is good genetics! Neither of my parents had a degree but they both went to grammar school back in the late 1950s so were relatively bright and passed their clever genes onto me. They did very little to help me with school work, and my schools were very average state schools in the north-east, but exam success just came naturally to me. I was always top of the class, albeit at a non-selective comp, got 10 A's at GCSE (before A-star was invented) with minimal effort, then AAB at A level (again before A-star was invented, and despite having been out clubbing twice a week throughout sixth form), and a first class degree. I then married someone who had a similar level of academic success. Our 2 boys have always been top of the class with a laid back approach to effort, and have never been tutored in any subject. Both were predicted straight 9's at GCSE. The eldest got the grades for a top uni.

They also both play a sport at national level - though those genes definitely didn't come from me!

Both DC have done really well throughout their education and they are currently both on full scholarships at their universities and are maintaining amazing GPAs. One is still at the undergrad level and the other is doing their masters.

They are very different people, personality and interests wise, but in both of them our genetics seem to have combined very fortunately. My DH has a great work ethic, positivity and enthusiasm for everything he does, whereas I've the much higher IQ but was academically lazy, unconfident and not very ambitious at all.

Also both DC's were allowed to naturally develop a love of learning for knowledge's sake. That certainly helped massively I believe. They went to schools that weren't at all test/exam driven and that really suited them. They ended up excelling when exams were necessary, but they didn't have constant stress and pressure (unlike my experience of a very academic grammar school) and that allowed them to calmly achieve their full potential, rather than hating every minute of school and waking up feeling sick with nerves every Monday (yup - talking about me again!)

One of them loves reading, one finds it a chore. They're both doing equally well, but the non-reader (not surprisingly) chose a very math/science based degree and the avid reader is doing his MA right now.

Really high achieving schools and luck. And possibly the fact that they're girls. We are a bilingual family that has made some things easy for them.

I've never had to chase them for homework as they always did homework clubs at school.

But mostly luck.

Books, 'cultural capital' (going to museums, galleries, castles...), always having dinner together talking at the table with no screens. And more books.

There's an element of genetics as well I guess - I was a bright student - but he's cleverer than I was. I missed out on the cultural capital bit as a child because we lived rurally and didn't have the money.

DD is very bright, but honestly, we haven’t done much at all, except encourage her to read and but her lots of books on things that interest her (mostly from charity shops, so low cost)
She’s never been tutored. I think much of it is innate, she picks things up very quickly and has a sharp and curious mind and amazing memory. OH and I were both considered advanced/gifted in school too, which supports the genetic theory.

@DancingDaughter50

Please anyone reading this who doesn't have a reader, don't dispair

I agree, reading isn't always the magic bullet.

We read a lot with DS and he could read before starting school. But throughout Primary, he started losing interest in reading and he'd completely given up on it once he started secondary. All the school "analysis", "interpretation", etc just sucked the joy out of it for him. Fiction was a real turn-off for him, as was poetry, he never "got it" at all, and if he was to read anything, it would be factual rather than literature as such.

He became a very heavy "screen" user, spending lots of time playing on Fifa, Minecraft, etc. on his xbox whilst watching Youtube videos on his ipad (multi-tasking at it's finest!).

But he absolutely excelled at secondary school, getting mostly grade 9 at GCSE and clean sweep of A* at A Level. Now just about to graduate from Uni with a first in Maths degree. His lowest GCSE grades were grade 7s in Eng Lat and Lang simply because he never read the books nor poetry, just did the bare minimum of revision from the York notes books to get a jist of the characters, plots, etc. He's very literate, well spoken, good vocabulary, etc., despite not reading since primary school!

I think it was the reading/writing at the most formative early years of pre school and first couple of years at primary school that did the trick for him and set him up with a "toolkit" of literacy that he can draw on when HE decides it's worthwhile, and for him, that's not reading fiction nor poetry.

@Kazzyhoward

Agree its the tool kit, understanding inference, clues and being able to pull out information that's the key. Reading enough to get to that stage is the thing not reading 100s of books.

Of course reading 100s of books is brilliant but it's not essential for success.

Do not despair.

Literally nothing. In our case it’s genetic…my dad is off the charts intelligent, I have some game on that front and DC2 has inherited it.

a mix of genetics and encouragement. They were both inquisitive so I just provided them with information, whether that was books or documentaries, experiences, or just google searches.

One of my dc gets tutoring, she's the one I consider has the most exciting brain.

There is zero flexibility in her school to tweak things so she can learn.
We had to help her with the foundations and teach her how to learn. I don't like the stigma around tutors so I tell as many people as I can.

Letting them be who they are and fuck up a bit instead of constantly trying to steer/ supervise them. Also talking about finances throughout childhood. Stable background with a couple of hobbies, lots of fun and holidays.
My eldest was a rebel, couldn't stand school even though very bright, scraped English and maths. Now has own successful business, five bed house, good lifestyle etc
Youngest is doing accounting/business degree - studious, passed everything no problem. Never did partying until uni, their own choice . Neither ever had tutoring. Also they've always seen me work.

I think some dcs absorb academic knowledge. In the same way some dcs like sport and some are brilliant at art or music.

My ds reads endlessly. He spends most school lunchtimes reading. He'll go to bed and read. He'll read the ingredients on the cornflakes box. He costs me a small fortune in Waterstones.

All I've done is read a lot myself, provide him with plenty of reading material since he was three and shown an interest in what he chooses to read.

On the other hand he dislikes sport and it's taken years of effort to help him find two activities he likes.

With an Early Years background, I promoted the Characteristics of Effective Learning.
birthto5matters.org.uk/overview-characteristics-of-effective-learning-and-areas-of-learning-and-development/

This includes, trying and failing, problem solving, curiosity, perseverance etc. Lots of talk.

DC’s had an active lifestyle, lots of play, time to think and work things out for themselves.independent time at home to create and amuse themselves.
Lots of making from junk, construction toys ( lego, duplo),boxes of pens and labels, loads of time outside building dens, dam building in rivers.

None of my DC’s enjoyed reading.

All 11+ and grammar school. All A-B, A level grades ( one 3A and an A).
One uni RG, biochemistry, and Master in Performing Arts, another an engineering apprenticeship and very entrepreneurial. Own business and house by 23.

They've used their talents. They've been commended for their initiative, respect and team work.

My DC are both high academic achievers and are at Oxford and Cambridge. But only time will tell if they will be high achievers in life.

When they were growing up we prioritised them and their needs. Lots of conversation, books and activities. Camping holidays with visits to castles, NT properties, boat trips and UK beaches. Lots of day trips to museums and galleries. A weekend in Rome when they did Romans at school and to London and Hampton Court for the Tudors.

I was a SAHM during primary years which meant that they could go to activities that they chose but could also chill out if they wanted. Both have always needed quiet time and their own space which we were able to give them. Lots of time to do and find things out for themselves.

We did do tutoring in Y5 for the 11+ and we had a short term tutor for DS before he sat the PAT for Oxford. That one was great value as he came out buzzing after each session. It would have been worth it even if he hadn't got in because he learned so much.

Always praise effort rather than intellect.

Personally, I think that the majority of people are in the middle and could be high achievers with the right support/engagement. I'd say maybe the lowest 10% would never get anywhere, even with all help available due to learning disabilities etc., and the highest 10% will achieve, even with virtually no help/support/nurturing, just because they're brilliant, i.e. level of Einstein or Hawkins etc.

For the middle 80% or so, I think some of the brighter ones could well fail academically simply because of their surroundings, either poor parenting, poor schools, poor choice of friends, etc. Likewise some of the less bright could well be "dragged" up by lots of support, parental engagement, good schools, good friendship group etc. So basically, it's all a bit of a lottery for the middle 80%!

I certainly would never say that someone who's done pretty well at GCSE or A level are particularly "gifted and talented" academically. Likewise I'd never say that someone who got low grades across the board was "thick". Luck plays a massive part, i.e. luck as to your parents, luck as to your friend groups, luck as to which forms/classes your school put you in, etc. There are so many factors which are relevant in someone's first 20 years of life - no single thing will "make or break" a person, it's a combination of lots of factor.

Dd is working at greater depth across the board - and I’m honestly not sure how! Some of it is genetic (both myself and Dah have higher degrees) but we haven’t tutored her or pushed her in any way.
the only things we do which could help are:
*we eat family dinner together every night and talk about ‘stuff’ - it’s not like there’s a set program, but it might be something in the news, or history or politics. We have always encouraged DD to join in and listen to her viewpoints.

• we’ve encouraged her interests from an early age - so when she was 3 she was interested in space - we took her to the science museum to see rockets, we found documentaries that were age appropriate for her to watch etc etc, not limiting it based on what we thought she’d understand.

• we’re lucky that we have funds to pay for things like music lessons and the sport she enjoys.
• she loves reading, and she’s always allowed to buy books. We all love reading and, as a family, have probably over a thousand books. She reads widely and follows what takes her interest.

she’s also an only child, so hasn’t had to compete for attention.

she’s state educated and always will be - we could just about stretch to private but there would be nothing spare for all
the other activities we enjoy and, as a family, we don’t think the benefit of private school outweighs the loss of everything else to the rest of us!

it's a nature versus nurture question isn't it really?
Both DH and I are natrually quite intelligent (eg I joined Mensa as a child, both nig readers etc) so as parents we have always done a lot of reading with our children and for family days out things like museums and other cultural visits are what we enjoy. We all enjoy board games and quiz shows and the kids always had the week junior which we would read and discuss during dinner etc. We have always sat at the table as a family to eat the evening meal where possible.
It could be that by doing all the reading and stuff above we have mad our children high achievers - DS1 has either already got or is predicted to get A*/As in all of his GCSEs, or it could be that they have just inherited our level of intelligence and interests.

I guess the only (not very moral way) to ever know would be for twins to be split up and one brought up as above and the other to be brought up eating alone or on the sofa watching tv, no books in the house and no trips out etc.

I think that its not possible to make a low ability child into a true high achiever just by hot housing them but if a child has some natural ability but no drive then parents pushing them a bit can make a big difference.

Mine is greater depth across the board. I think it's genetics. She's good at academic stuff like some are good at sport (she is terrible at sport). We have lots of books, family dinners, trips to castles/ museums/ art galleries, encouragement of interests and hobbies and lucky enough to be able to afford to do music lessons etc like others have said. But DH and I both went to grammar schools, I got v good GCSE and A Level results with very little effort (he did not!), both have good degrees, I have an MSc and professional qualifications...my parents both came from poor backgrounds but went to grammar schools back in the day when they were universal. My Dad in particular is genius levels of clever at maths. And he grew up in a terrible environment but ended up going to university. So I think mainly genetics. But a supportive environment helps.

As the original thread is so old, thought I would update...DS is still at GD in all subjects, in the top 3 in his school and is generally an easy child. Beyond giving him limitless access to books and being actively interested, all of his extra curricular activities are sports and recreational based.

It is nature (born ability) and nurture (parental, academic, peer) influenced in my opinion. We value education and DS has enrichment and opportunity to learn in his everyday life. We are all avid learners and have never treated him like he is anything other than capable.

Being academic / book smart doesn’t necessarily make for a successful or happy life. Looking at peers from school the very academic ones really haven’t thrived particularly well in life. It’s more nuanced than that.

You need likeability/ charm / confidence / common sense / good people skills to succeed in life. Being able to bash out an amazing essay, play the violin and speak French is neither here nor there.