For those with high achievers - how (honesty please!)

[1AngelicFruitCake]

As the title! Inspired by the thread about why people don’t confess to tutoring their children. If your child is in the ‘exceeding/above expectations’ range then what is it you do at home to help?

@YerAWizardHarry

Surely a lot of it boils down to having the financial means? Museum entrance fees (and the travel involved), music lessons, paying for sports clubs and language lessons? Heck even books cost money

Would also be interesting to see how many of the posters are around to do school pick up/drop off and spend an hour or two on homework after school. All fine saying 'oh we read together and have discussions around dinner and play academic games' when lots of the 'squeezed middle' are literally crawling towards bedtime after being out the house for 12hrs already (in my case teaching other peoples children! ) definitely a difficult balance between being money "rich" but time poor sometimes.

We live well within our means so we are the opposite - time rich, money "poor". We were paying for music tuition fees but these have just recently been waived by the Scottish Government. There should be no barriers to learning for our children.

I agree with a PP. No need to buy books. Head to your library. All of mine are used to visits here.

We went to free museums and used the library van. Went to the big library when we could. Also got the library app latterly so they could have free books on their tablets.

Ds has a tutor

His junior school strongly discouraged their pupils having tutors

It’s odd that so many treat having a tutor as a dirty secret it was like it was frowned upon to talk about tutors no one would admit to it. Children talk and the majority had tutors. It’s another one on the list of this bizarre culture in private schooling that I have learnt

I’m open about it. Also single parent working full time the stress of me trying to support ds was creating such problems he works really well with his tutor (ds has sown learning difficulties too so needs support with this)

Ds doesn’t like reading his isn’t particularly academic

@stringlightcentral yes I'm talking about my kids who are still young because the op asked about kids who get 'exceeding expectations'. I don't think this guarantees lifelong success of any kind I was just answering the OP's question.

I agree that money and time play a part in (some) academic success. Its also worth remembering that ways of testing intelligence are designed by a particular set of people who will always say that genetics play a part because that implies that there is a right way to be intelligent and they and their kids are it!

I also think that in terms of lifelong "success" emotional well-being is the most important thing of all. I don't claim to know how to instil that in kids and make sure it sticks.

Me and my siblings are all very academic, all have masters, went to RGs etc etc

Both our parents were REALLY clever, phd in very sciency areas clever which honestly I think has a huge part in it… to some extent it must be genetic.
They also massively valued education and it was the one hill they’d die on in terms of strictness etc

@ChiaraRimini maybe it doesn't matter if she doesn't enjoy reading as long as she is able to read well! As a kid I didn't read much (Especially compared ti my sister) because I preferred other activities that were creative and active - sewing, drawing, puzzles, toys. I do have a phd though and am a professor! I am also quite well informed from listening to radio 4 whilst doing creative, practical stuff like diy and cooking. Would never choose to spend an afternoon reading a book

This might sound like a stupid comment, but all kids are different. Obviously there are things you can do to encourage them, such as encourage them to read, talk to them, watch educational TV shows, be proactive in talking to them about their school work/what they would like to do in the future etc.

But if a child doesn't like reading, they won't read.

If they don't like the structure of formal education, they will rebel against it.

There's a fine line between encouraging and pushing - push too much and they'll push back.

The best thing you can do is not worry about it. I know it's easier said than done. But raise a happy, healthy child - and the rest will fall where it's meant to.

Some kids do very poorly in school and then excel at careers such as plastering, brick laying, computer game design .. there's so much that doesn't fall within the traditional curriculum.

I think it’s down to the child. My brother is extremely intelligent with a PhD in chemistry , I have an HND in Communication and failed maths.

Oops meant to say, both raised the same but obviously just different.

We do lots of reading (librarian & writer), which definitely helps. Try to answer every question & explain everything. Experience different things as much as possible. Also limit screen time, even for 12-year old.

However, I do think it is just innate. DS1 is very bright - top set in everything at comprehensive senior school. Was also top at primary school but did not get into grammar (Essex, boys' grammar school consistently comes in top 10 in country so very competitive). Reads for pleasure, loves learning history, geography, languages. DS2 is bright but has quite severe SEN (ADHD & suspected autism) so has always been 'working towards' in school reports, last time got a few 'working within'. Starting to catch up but will likely never be top of the class. DS3 is scarily bright. Teachers described him as 'exceptionally bright'. He is like DS1 but with confidence & spent his whole life trying to keep up with his big brothers! Will choose to read, do puzzles, puzzle books or board games over screens. Is very inquisitive.

I have an MA & DH is on the verge of gaining one, so we encourage academics & set that example naturally.

@BigSandyBalls2015

I’ve often wondered if you’re very bright, top unis, great jobs etc, if it’s a shock to have DC that struggle?

The short answer is yes and it’s made me,and I suspect his siblings, better people for it . They understand that success is not about grades. That said, the story of my ‘strugglers’ school life was ‘we can’t believe he’s doing as well as he is’ and I think that’s because he had his siblings to keep up with and because without actually ever saying anything the household was intrinsically academic. The default activity is reading and ‘discussion’ about anything and everything.

I couldn’t care less about ‘exceeding expectations’ whose expectations? Or SATs or what reading book they are on etc. But we have always made it clear that education is valuable, it can never be taken away from you and it’s a privilege as well as a right. Interestingly I would say that my most ‘academic’ child is not the highest achieving in school terms, that is the one who is the most conventional and conformist as well as being bright.

The one who is least academic is probably the most at ease with himself. His difficulties have made him far more resilient, he doesn’t expect to succeed first time at things and he is generous with his time to others who are struggling . He is doing very well in his chosen career and is an excellent and valued team member.

Dd wasn't a particularly high achiever when young, preferred sports, didn't read much. She suddenly became very driven in year 11, did well at GCSE and then dedicated her life to getting 3 A stars at A level (she got two and an A) and got into a top uni. I love reading and we have a houseful of books but none of my 4 read very much and all are doing fine, some very well academically

I was always "gifted" at school. My parents had average incomes, but were teachers so plenty of support with homework etc. I ended up studying different subjects to theirs, but still did well. Our house was always ridiculously full of books, and we went to lots of museums etc. No beach holidays for us! No tutors, but plenty of music lessons and extra-curricular activities.

My older brother had exactly the same upbringing, and is probably even more intelligent than me, but he wasn't as bothered about academic stuff, got average grades, basically dropped out of his degree. He was more interested in sport and being sociable. He's now got an incredibly responsible job and earns way more than me! He's also a talented artist, reads a lot, and has two super intelligent, well-rounded and sociable children.

I'm in a stressful, low-paying job and am depressed and anxious. But the cultural things that were instilled in me when I was small still give me a lot of pleasure.

Oh, and my DB has to study and pass exams in his current job and consistently excels. So does his wife who works in the same sector and who doesn't have a higher education. So some of the academic skills our parents helped us with clearly stuck.

@Matildatoldsuchdreadfullies

Choosing a partner with a high IQ. It’s not a guarantee, but certainly increases the odds.

Doesn’t matter as IQ is inherited from the mother, not the father.

I read somewhere that there's no direct correlation between intelligent parents and intelligent kids.

I had an insanely high iq went to Cambridge etc and none of mine as as clever and my parents weren't clever either. My dad had a good memory for random facts but both left school at 15 and weren't academically successful at all.

Also none of my siblings have been at all academically successful, less so than average. I think I am an anomaly!

@madmomma

Elvis a 6.30 bedtime til secondary?! Seriously?!

Possibly 7 by the end! They were compliant and used to it, it worked wonders for their behaviour. They kept the same pattern themselves and would get up early to read or do homework during school, youngest still gets up early to read, eldest tends to go out on her bike or walk and get a coffee.

Audiobooks. My son had the highest reading age at primary by year 4. He rarely reads at home but has always listened to a lot of audiobooks. I really think it's helped

The really high achieving kids I have known have just been cleverer. Usually they are gifted with an amazing memory. Often, but not always, one or both parents are similarly gifted.
If you have a kid with low natural ability or average, you can improve outcomes and results but lots of hard work. But then they have to want to.
Dd3, who had substantial delays had an inspiring teacher when she was 8 who told her that she would find things harder to grasp but she could overcome this by working harder than everyone else.

It's inate in the child but also what you do with them. I always catch myself doing word problems, math stuff even during chit chat and from when they were little.

It's fun for both me and dh so we keep doing it. I guess it's similar to how a footballer would always play footie with their kids. (The kids do play football - but it's just them messing around)

My kids have no option but to become nerds when they grow up. It's nature as well as nurture for them

Also - lots of reading - and seeing us read as well. Reminds me... I need to get some newspapers delivered. For me to read and the kids to dip into if they want.

Step in early with support if they do struggle.

We were told DD1 and DS didn't have maths brains with DS really behind- DD1 just got A and A* (In wales they kept letters) in maths and numeracy they're talking about sitting DS early ( not wild about it TBH ) so they can do further maths GCSE end of year 9 they sat practise GCSE papers he was getting a B. Found mathsfactor via primary board here - all did it all really good with basics so easy to build on and they all want to do A-level maths as they enjoy it.

Surround them with knowledge- books, audi, tv, games, some bits of you tube - educational days out and hope for the best.

Do try and praise work not end results and doing more than bare minimum. Plus having struggled at times they have learnt they can improve with extra work.

Mostly though I think it is hugely genetics influenced - though DH and I did really well academically our parents all left school at 15/16 for work and only my DDad did futher study - though he did a lot and FIL always shown a interest in vsisiting historical sites and reading.

I read somewhere that there's no direct correlation between intelligent parents and intelligent kids.

I think it's not that clear cut most studies I think find it's both nature and nurture.

intelligence determined by genetics?

Researchers have conducted many studies to look for genes that influence intelligence. Many of these studies have focused on similarities and differences in IQ within families, particularly looking at adopted children and twins. These studies suggest that genetic factors underlie about 50 percent of the difference in intelligence among individuals. Other studies have examined variations across the entire genomes of many people (an approach called genome-wide association studies or GWAS) to determine whether any specific areas of the genome are associated with IQ. These studies have not conclusively identified any genes that have major roles in differences in intelligence. It is likely that a large number of genes are involved, each of which makes only a small contribution to a person’s intelligence.

Intelligence is also strongly influenced by the environment. Factors related to a child’s home environment and parenting, education and availability of learning resources, and nutrition, among others, all contribute to intelligence. A person’s environment and genes influence each other, and it can be challenging to tease apart the effects of the environment from those of genetics.

I don't think reading is as important as mumsnet thinks it is.