"That Griggio stuff"

[DuchessOfDisaster]

One of my friends always preferred rose wine, semi-sweet or sweeter wines. I forgot that and one day when I went over for supper took a bottle of Pinot Grigio. She liked it and started to buy it for herself.

Now, she refers to it as "that Griggio stuff" (pronounced with a hard g!) It's embarrassingly amusing!

Do you have any mates that say things like this?

Oh look. More Southern English people thinking they're the only ones in the UK.

I'd say it "fassad" not rhyming with lard (no R!) but the second 'a' sound slightly elongated.

It seem likely you and the PP pronounce it the same way, but you’re a rhotic speaker and she’s transliterated from her non-rhotic pronunciation.

We’re taking ‘rhymes with Fa and La the way Julie Andrews pronounces them in the Sound of Music for the avoidance of all confusion’, right?

@SoupDragon

One of my friends always preferred rose wine

Is that the same as rosé?

Probably just couldn't be fucked putting the accent on the e on their phone. I certainly know I can't be. Think you managed to understand though?

@JassyRadlett

I'd say it "fassad" not rhyming with lard (no R!) but the second 'a' sound slightly elongated.

It seem likely you and the PP pronounce it the same way, but you’re a rhotic speaker and she’s transliterated from her non-rhotic pronunciation.

We’re taking ‘rhymes with Fa and La the way Julie Andrews pronounces them in the Sound of Music for the avoidance of all confusion’, right?

No, not quite. I'd pronounce the second syllable with a shorter 'a' sound (but held for a little longer) than the non-rhotic pronunciation of 'lard', as in 'bat'.

Coincidentally, I watched The Sound of Music last night! "Fa, a longer way to run" used to confuse the heck out of me as a (Scottish) child!

I'd pronounce the second syllable with a shorter 'a' sound (but held for a little longer) than the non-rhotic pronunciation of 'lard', as in 'bat'.

Bat to me has a very short a - cat, bat, sad so in that case facade would rhyme with mad or cad?

(I’m really trying not to touch the ‘latte’ debate upthread, but to say I’ve never heard an Italian use a short a that is the same as the short a in cat, bat, sat. It’s between a and ah. So absolutely no one is right and anyone trying to be sneery of the other way of saying it in the UK, whether lattay or lahtay, is not only a dick but also a fool.)

Probably just couldn't be fucked putting the accent on the e on their phone. I certainly know I can't be. Think you managed to understand though?

But it's OK to mock the people bending sneered at on this thread even though it's perfectly obvious what they meant...?

Well, it is like that the a in 'mad'... but sustained for a microsecond! It's certainly nothing like the sound in non-rhotic 'lard', that's further back in the mouth for a start.
Just try saying "façade" in a Scottish accent, and I'm sure you'll see what I mean!

Just try saying "façade" in a Scottish accent, and I'm sure you'll see what I mean!

You do in in a metropolitan Australian one and we’ll see how we land, eh?

Well, it is like that the a in 'mad'... but sustained for a microsecond! It's certainly nothing like the sound in non-rhotic 'lard', that's further back in the mouth for a start.

My accent is fairly standard southern English these days, and Australian is generally non-rhotic anyway, but it’s definitely not further back in the mouth for me. This is the problem with accents, when we try to do each other’s we try to tie ourselves in knots.

bending sneered at = being sneered at. 🙄

Very true, @JassyRadlett, very true!
I've tried façade in the style of various famous (to me) Australians, and now Im so confused I have no idea how to pronounce the word at all!

/a/ = cat, bat, sat (symbol is different but I can't be arsed/assed to c&p it)
/a:/ (the two dots lengthen the vowel) = car, bar, tar, dark.

If you speak with a rhotic accent, the /a:/ + /r/, the letter "r" is pronounced= /da:rk/. Non rhotic, the vowel is still just as long, but you don't pronounce the "r"= /da:k/

Re: "latte" (and other Italian vowels) acoustically, there's a minute difference in length of the sounds- for example an Italian /i/ is a fraction longer than a standard English /i/ ("bit" etc) and a fraction shorter than a standard English /i:/ ("been") It's why hilarious (sic) non PC comics of the 70s do such a ridiculous Italian accent. It's the same with an Italian /a/ But it's hard to hear that difference with the naked ear, so to speak.
It's also not completely true that Italian has only 5 vowel sounds. There are morpho-phonemic variations (again, often minute) depending on the letters that follow certain sounds. (latte- has an "a" which sounds a tiny bit shorter than the "a" in "lato" because it's followed by a double consonant. They're the same phoneme/sound, but undergo tiny changes according to position. When measured acoustically, it's the consonants that actually change. The double "t" is clipped and gives more plosive oomph than the single "t" but to our ears, the vowel changes as well.

This is the sort of thing we used to talk about in Pedants' Corner before it was taken over by people spitting on their keyboards (extremely plosively) about "should of"

I've just practised Australian lard and my lard, and to me the Australian /a:/ does come from further back. But /a:/ is a back vowel anyway.

Name change as any of my sisters or brothers will know 😂 my mum says hot DOG emphasis on the dog rather than the hot

I've just practised Australian lard and my lard

Which kind of Australian?

Me and some mates a long time ago thought we were hilarious by going up to the bar and seeing if the bar staff noticed when we asked for a bottle of “penis grigio please”

@JassyRadlett

I've just practised Australian lard and my lard

Which kind of Australian?

My very very bad Australian which listening to myself almost sounds like I'm imitating a Scouse who is gargling. Dp kept wandering past going "why are you talking to the mirror and peering into your mouth? Is it your teeth?"

@BlackClothesAndRainbowSocks - now I'm picturing your mum ordering sausage in a bun in a James Brown accent