So my 12 yo is a blackmailer...

[ThisOldSaddo]

We're having difficulties with our 12 year old.

He's insatiable for stuff - sweets, chocolate, pop, tech, gaming...he never listens and will always always always push boundaries. We call him Billy Wantsmore, because of this trait. He always takes it too far, esp when with his brother.

We are having him see an ADHD specialist in November, and that's the nearest private appointment we could get.

We have a friend visiting, he lost his job in lockdown and so we got him down to us as he's fragile, mentally, and was stoney broke!

Last night DH and I went to check out a local car for sale. Friend stayed home and kids were playing on their games upstairs.

Immediately we were out the door,
dS12 came down and said "I'm getting a Boost" from the treat drawer. DF said no, it's too late and it's the last one, your mum might want that. DS then said "if you don't let me have it, I'll tell mum you dented her can with the wheelbarrow" / this I had already figured out and it appears - oddly - DH and I were having a conversation about the new dent whilst this was happening at home - it's no big deal.

DF still said no, but DS took it anyway and went upstairs.

DF told us when we got home.

I am so ashamed of DS.

Nothing we do to discipline him works.

Please help me.

What do I do?

Not thought of this but will do, prior to Dr Thevan appt. I will also ask him about worms, we've suffered before from this (shudder) so he would tell

Oh god, not this one again. Craving sugar is not a sign of diabetes. This is a total myth. Untreated diabetics have a high blood sugar level, not a low one.

There are some hormonal imbalances that increase appetite generally but they (a) are rare in children (b) have other symptoms too (c) are much, much less likely than this being a behavioural issue.

And worms don't make you hungry, if we're talking threadworms, which are the common ones. Only tapeworms, which are pretty rare on the U.K.

Not having a go at you, OP, but take the 'medical' advice on here with a massive pinch of salt.

@BlankTimes

Try Ross Greene's approach. The Explosive Child book and his website Lives in the Balance have different parenting techniques which are often recommended in discussions about neurodiverse kids.

I was about to say the same thing. "Conventional" parenting techniques don't work for neurodiverse children.

You need a total strategy rethink, and to move away from arbitrary punishment towards a more collaborative approach to parenting.

do you seriously expect a 12 year old who probably has additional needs to understand addiction and to addree it themselves.

I wouldn't automatically assume they couldn't. My D.C. was described as having severe additional needs at primary. We got a statement with significant individual funding then later got it withdrawn when we discovered the funding was no longer being used for their individual provision. They have been extremely successful. Currently looking towards a career in research. I never assumed they 'couldn't' do anything. Just found away to approach issues in terms which were applicable to their interests and motivations. 🤷‍♀️

Regarding chores:

Do you think it would be better to make some changes so that the things on the list are things he needs to do instead of things you'd like him to do? Then it could be built up over time.

With my brother we had e.g. a list of all the things he needed either do or make sure he didn't need to do in order to get ready to school: everything from getting dressed, to cleaning his teeth to finding school books. It can be laminated and go through and tick it each day and then wipe it clean once a week at the weekend.

You could then have an equivalent list for any other areas where things get forgotten, including things where he is contributing to the household like walking the dog. I find it a lot easier to do jobs that are "built in" to my routine, so they become a habit, than if I have to try and corral my brain into just remembering something. It being on the list potentially also reduces nagging because there's one place to look things up, instead of checking in again and again?

I’ve come to this thread late, and really only skim read so apologies if I get stuff wrong.

My parents invited a friend who was unemployed and had MH difficulties into our lives and our home when I was around 12 and he stayed forever more. (He’s still there now, over 30 years later - lived with them twice as long as any of their children ever did!)

I didn’t/don’t have ADHD so didn’t react quite like your ds but I will say that he is witnessing you giving kindness, time and energy to someone else and may possibly be feeling like he doesn’t get the same input from you - if your ds had dented your car and not told you wouldn’t you be furious with him? Why let an adult off and not a child?

I see that you are taking all suggestions on the thread seriously so if this doesn’t make sense to you/doesn’t fit with your dynamic at home then fair enough and apologies, just wanted to share a different perspective.

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow

Not thought of this but will do, prior to Dr Thevan appt. I will also ask him about worms, we've suffered before from this (shudder) so he would tell

Oh god, not this one again. Craving sugar is not a sign of diabetes. This is a total myth. Untreated diabetics have a high blood sugar level, not a low one.

There are some hormonal imbalances that increase appetite generally but they (a) are rare in children (b) have other symptoms too (c) are much, much less likely than this being a behavioural issue.

And worms don't make you hungry, if we're talking threadworms, which are the common ones. Only tapeworms, which are pretty rare on the U.K.

Not having a go at you, OP, but take the 'medical' advice on here with a massive pinch of salt.

I didn't think anyone mentioned diabetes, but that's not on my radar. We're fairly au fait with that in this house - so would have noticed that at least before.

@ItWorriesMeThisKindofThing

I’ve come to this thread late, and really only skim read so apologies if I get stuff wrong.

My parents invited a friend who was unemployed and had MH difficulties into our lives and our home when I was around 12 and he stayed forever more. (He’s still there now, over 30 years later - lived with them twice as long as any of their children ever did!)

I didn’t/don’t have ADHD so didn’t react quite like your ds but I will say that he is witnessing you giving kindness, time and energy to someone else and may possibly be feeling like he doesn’t get the same input from you - if your ds had dented your car and not told you wouldn’t you be furious with him? Why let an adult off and not a child?

I see that you are taking all suggestions on the thread seriously so if this doesn’t make sense to you/doesn’t fit with your dynamic at home then fair enough and apologies, just wanted to share a different perspective.

Yes, we do refer to DF as our Joey (from Friends) lol! He'll get on track soon - he can work, but cheffing isn't booming right now, and he suffers from anxiety, so he needs some time before getting back to the real world.

I don't think DS is seeing us having DF as an act of benevolence. I think he just thinks he's having a nice time visiting as he's got some time to spare. But maybe I'm wrong, we'll see.

If DS had bashed the car with a wheelbarrow would I be furious? Probably not. He was helping us, for a start, and I shouldn't have parked where I was - also, the wheelbarrow was fucked, and I should have ordered another earlier. So my actions contributed for sure and I think although I'd be mad, I'd get over it because "accident" - what can you do? I don't get hung up on this stuff though.

Had it been our other car, however, I'd have lost all of my shite with ANYONE.

@Gladioli23

Regarding chores:

Do you think it would be better to make some changes so that the things on the list are things he needs to do instead of things you'd like him to do? Then it could be built up over time.

With my brother we had e.g. a list of all the things he needed either do or make sure he didn't need to do in order to get ready to school: everything from getting dressed, to cleaning his teeth to finding school books. It can be laminated and go through and tick it each day and then wipe it clean once a week at the weekend.

You could then have an equivalent list for any other areas where things get forgotten, including things where he is contributing to the household like walking the dog. I find it a lot easier to do jobs that are "built in" to my routine, so they become a habit, than if I have to try and corral my brain into just remembering something. It being on the list potentially also reduces nagging because there's one place to look things up, instead of checking in again and again?

Such good ideas, thank you. x

I don't think we've called him a Machiavell, but he's not big on Shakespearean tropes

[Misses point of thread]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niccol%C3%B2_Machiavelli

He was a real chap, not a character from Shakespear.

@donquixotedelamancha

Thank you. I've been dying to say that!!

Ignore all the stuff about not referring to your child in a lighthearted way, OP. If you haven't parented a little demon, you can't know what it's like- you need to be able to vent.

I don't have a magic wand and I certainly haven't found a way to make it easy but this is the stuff I've done which works:

• Treat the child as younger than they are. Do a bit more for them and reassure them more than they seem to need. Build regular chances for attachment time, even when they are doing well.

• Do have high expectations and try to encourage independence but do it slowly and allow them to fail. Treat every shitty thing they do as a mistake that can be fixed- reassure them it's OK to fail and keep reminding them 'we don't do X'.

• Punish mistakes quickly and done. Don't punish them or criticise them, punish the action- when they do X, Y happens as a result. Where possible use 'natural' consequences' (e.g. they don't get dressed, they don't go for lunch).

• Praise when admit mistakes and lies. Don't punish when they genuinely own up and fix problems, but don't let them use that to get away with stuff.

• Stick to routines as much as possible and just keep banging away with the reassuance, reward for good behaviour and consequences for misconduct. Over time, it does work but they will have ups and downs.

• It's not your fault. Give yourself some slack.

Thank you. I've been dying to say that!!

Surprised we got this far without it comming up. I love Niccolo Machiavelli- he was a top bloke.

He was spot on too.

He was spot on too.

Indeed. His poor reputation is, IMHO, not at all deserved.

@donquixotedelamancha

I don't think we've called him a Machiavell, but he's not big on Shakespearean tropes

[Misses point of thread]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niccol%C3%B2_Machiavelli

He was a real chap, not a character from Shakespear.

He was of course. Maybe I should google and refresh...my entire undergrad - le sigh...

Thisold:
We have called him the nickname to his face, but not for ages now. I don't think we've called him a Machiavell, but he's not big on Shakespearean tropes, so shouldn't think he'd get onto it even if we did.
.......
Since when did Machiavelli have anything to do with Shakespeare? He was an Italian writer, diplomat and philosopher.