So my 12 yo is a blackmailer...

[ThisOldSaddo]

We're having difficulties with our 12 year old.

He's insatiable for stuff - sweets, chocolate, pop, tech, gaming...he never listens and will always always always push boundaries. We call him Billy Wantsmore, because of this trait. He always takes it too far, esp when with his brother.

We are having him see an ADHD specialist in November, and that's the nearest private appointment we could get.

We have a friend visiting, he lost his job in lockdown and so we got him down to us as he's fragile, mentally, and was stoney broke!

Last night DH and I went to check out a local car for sale. Friend stayed home and kids were playing on their games upstairs.

Immediately we were out the door,
dS12 came down and said "I'm getting a Boost" from the treat drawer. DF said no, it's too late and it's the last one, your mum might want that. DS then said "if you don't let me have it, I'll tell mum you dented her can with the wheelbarrow" / this I had already figured out and it appears - oddly - DH and I were having a conversation about the new dent whilst this was happening at home - it's no big deal.

DF still said no, but DS took it anyway and went upstairs.

DF told us when we got home.

I am so ashamed of DS.

Nothing we do to discipline him works.

Please help me.

What do I do?

I think he likes the attention from it all and causing drama in the house. The blackmail thing is shitty, not nice. Giving him a name doesn’t help as that’s probably making him do it more.
Glad there’s no access to sweets and treats and he’s off the internet.

My point about the Machiavelli name is that it betrays your attitude to him, like any other nickname or epithet would, whether you say it to his face or not (and being 12 not 5 he is perfectly capable of googling it like my 13 yr old would). Yes I think you went nuclear. It was minor in the scheme of things just embarrassing because it was an adult outside the family. Others like @loopyapp are giving you good advice.

I am secretly really impressed with the giving you a knackered controller thing. He sounds very like DD2 who is either going to be ruling the world, or a supervillain when she gets older.

The rule I have, which seems to be paying fruition with DD1 who was a horrendous liar at one point, is that, if you lie and seek to deceive me - the punishment you were trying to dodge out of is doubled (thankfully she's a really crap liar so usually catches herself out). She's starting to realise that it doesn't make sense to do so.

Tech bans only work if you're one step ahead of them in order to be able to implement the ban (as you've just found out with the game controller). Mine have iPads which I can lock time limits onto gaming whenever needed - they have Roblox time rationed as DD1 has absolutely no self control over that damned thing - and after a bit of huffing and puffing - they've accepted that when the screen time kicks in - it's over for the day, and no amount of trying to play me, DH or grandparents off against each other has elicited the passcode to get those settings off.

@OctaviaTriangle

Christ talk about overkill.

So you suspect additional needs which you're having him assessed for in due course. He asks for a bar of chocolate, is told no, and pulls a fast one and takes it anyway.

That's naughty. That requires a talking to, a punishment that fits the crime and an explanation as to why we don't do this stuff followed up with regular chats around behaviour

I don't think it requires locks on things, removing his tech and then removing a trip out. All you'll do is escalate this situation and back him into a corner

You've made a right old mountain out of a molehill

You got there first! I completely agree. Massive over reaction.

Don't beat yourself up. We don't get pulled aside in school and taught how to parent. It's hard.
We all escalate at times.... I do it all the time if I think my child doesn't seem sorry enough. I usually start by saying no screens for a day and within 20 seconds he's banned for all eternity. But I'm just showing him out of control I am.

He does sound like he may have an issue with addiction. Sugar, gaming etc all produce lovely dopamine. So where I totally understand the idea that other people in the house shouldn't be ”punished” for his behaviour, your child has a compulsion. Reframe his behaviours from naughtiness to a lack of impulse control - one of the hallmarks of ADHD. Stop thinking about how to punish him and start thinking about how to help him to gain more control of himself.

His ill thought out and impulsive behaviour may well also be behind his comment to your friend. Whatever coping mechanism pops into his head he uses - because if he does have ADHD he may have little or no impulse control. How can you help him to think before he acts? For someone with addiction or impulse control problems- punishments often are completely useless.

He sounds like a clever wee boy and you sound like you love him very much.

This deffo seems like a huge overreaction on your part though? He's missed a whole fun event, tech items removed, given crappy stuff to do.
It seems overkill.
Do you ever reward him when he's been good? You focus on the negative alot

By telling him his tech is banned "forever" (which it isn't so that's undermined the consequences straight away!) it sounds as though you don't have it clear in your mind exactly what punishments you want to give for what indiscretions. It's much easier to have thought of and agreed a clear set of guidelines in advance than having to think on your feet when under stress.

Calling your child a name is appalling
Get rid of the treats drawer- problem solved.

The way that you talk about his, the child etc is very removed. You seem to have no connection to him on an emotional level?

Trust me, he's not looking up "Machiavelli" laughing at the thought!!

And there's not a stranger in the house at all - DF came to us during the first lockdown when he contacted us for some cash. He lost his job as a chef and has (mild) mental health issues - I could hear something wasn't quite right with him, so sent DH 250 miles to collect him. He was with use all last lockdown, and has been back on and off this year for about 4 whole months in all.

Trust me, having a "stranger" in his house isn't disrupting DS one iota.

Nor is me calling him a Machiavelli genius to strangers on the internet hmm...

He's naughty, and that's ok, because he's 12.

What I need is a plan for this particular transgression, which I think is fairly awful. I don't think I'm blowing anything up @Ineedapuppy - but I'd say you are.

@MrsRobbieHart

OP I’ve found with my DS he has to be almost babied WRT his routine, eating well and regularly and going to sleep at a good time. He is unable to regulate those things himself unlike my other son so we have a fixed routine (with some built in flexibility that we all agree on in advance) he takes melatonin at the same time every night, does his bedtime routine, and gets to read for an hour then lights out at the same time every night. He needs a lot of sleep and it really impacts his day if he is tired. Same with eating well. I really have to be on top of it. I can’t leave it up to him to make sure he feeds himself properly. And unlike my other son, if he doesn’t it well for a day it has a far greater impact on his mood and behaviour.

I think you may need to agree with DH that this child will need far more hands on parenting, right down to the basics, in order to get on top of these behaviours.

Yes, I think you are quite right. I think I've left this side of things because with the smaller children, they're all over it. But they're all different, aren't they?

Helicopter parenting, here I come!!

Thank you.

Yes helicopter parenting. Unfortunately. We always expect to have to do less for them as they get older but I’ve had to accept that with DS, at least for the time being, I have to keep the toddler routine going.

Fortnite is the absolute devil!! Whenever we put a fortnite ban on I get my kind, fun, polite boy back!!
When he plays fortnite he is horrid to his friends(and they to him) and rude to us!

I just want to add you should stop the name calling it is a form of bullying.

@Horehound

This deffo seems like a huge overreaction on your part though? He's missed a whole fun event, tech items removed, given crappy stuff to do. It seems overkill. Do you ever reward him when he's been good? You focus on the negative alot

Oh certainly! For ages we had a list of sentence starters on the fridge to remind me - such as "i noticed today you did this.."; "I was so pleased when I heard you say this/help someone" etc.

But we may not be on top of that as we should be, so I'll tune in to that from now on.

However, I have to say, of course my post will be in the negative because we had a negative experience and that's what I need assistance on - you don't need to see him in the round, as it were. I clearly love him and am trying to be a good parent or I wouldn't be seeking advice. He'd just be left to his own devices (literally) and I wouldn't care. So by the very nature of seeking advice, you're only going to hear the "bad thing" we're currently talking about, because no one needs to hear a mother disclaim that she does indeed love her child...isn't it clear? I also am fairly sure I mentioned his qualities above.

Thank you, I am reading all of these.

So why did your husband not simply follow him upstairs and remove it from him?

Grow a spine and parent him properly. Additional needs are no excuse for bad behaviour.

My mind is kind of blown that you cannot see the connection between lavishing kindness on a a friend who is staying in your house with MH issues and the bad behaviour of your son with possible adhd whom you call names and fire over the top punishment at.

You say you are listening to people on this thread but you are not. I'm out I'm afraid, good luck with it all.

Additional needs are no excuse for bad behaviour.

Actually, they are sometimes.

OP, for what it's worth, I think you're doing a great job. But one thing I learned from having kids is that all come into the world with their own wiring, and parents have a limited capacity to change that at a fundamental level. All we can do is socialise them as best we can, and hope that life doesn't reward their worst behaviour.

@CoffeeWithCheese

I am secretly really impressed with the giving you a knackered controller thing. He sounds very like DD2 who is either going to be ruling the world, or a supervillain when she gets older.

The rule I have, which seems to be paying fruition with DD1 who was a horrendous liar at one point, is that, if you lie and seek to deceive me - the punishment you were trying to dodge out of is doubled (thankfully she's a really crap liar so usually catches herself out). She's starting to realise that it doesn't make sense to do so.

Tech bans only work if you're one step ahead of them in order to be able to implement the ban (as you've just found out with the game controller). Mine have iPads which I can lock time limits onto gaming whenever needed - they have Roblox time rationed as DD1 has absolutely no self control over that damned thing - and after a bit of huffing and puffing - they've accepted that when the screen time kicks in - it's over for the day, and no amount of trying to play me, DH or grandparents off against each other has elicited the passcode to get those settings off.

I also did laugh when I realised I'd been duped!! I have to admit.

I like the lying surcharge, a lot.

It's got to the point with DS where he's so good at lying, I feel gas-lighted at some points. Example - he asked me on the telephone, I was at work, whether he could take his XBOX to his buddies' house to play. I said no, I then make a contemporaneous note of our conversation (on my legal pad, so filled in the time, participants etc - I'm a lawyer and had it in front of me as was working) and made fucking MINUTES of my conversation with my son. He then told his nanny that I'd agreed, she texted, I didn't see it - he badgered her and she allowed him to go with it, as he is SO convincing.

I am making notes of my conversations with my 12 year old, because when he says "I did mum, I asked and you said yes" he's SO fucking earnest, I start to doubt myself.

See? Machiavelli (and he's never googling that, unless he reads this, and that's a fucking fact).

Do you ever reward him when he's been good?

This is a good point.

You mention your friend who you seem to have pulled put all the stops for, and your sister, who has been sober for nine years. You’re clearly able to see the positives in other people and respond to them.

You have only a small window now to build your relationship back up with him. In a few short years his friends will be the most important influence on his life and opinions (they may even be already). Regardless of a diagnosis, you need to work on the relationship you have now.

You need to stop called him names, stop referring to him as “the child” or his behaviour as that of “Kevin the Teenager”.

Look out for a Talking Teens parenting course or something similar - or find a book with some strategies - I would highly recommend “How to Talk so Teens will Listen and Listen so Teens Will Talk”.

Fortnite is a particularly addictive game. That won’t be helping.
If he likes helping in the garden, he might benefit from some heavy work activities, often used with children with sensory processing difficulties. It also keeps him busy!

mamaot.com/40-heavy-work-activities-kids/

Lots of pulling, pushing, moving furniture. It will also make him feel useful, always good for self esteem.
Good luck 😊

@PyjamaFan

I think she means a treat drawer

I did!!! . It’s one of those brain fog words I always get wrong..drawer looks wrong to me every time I type it!!

Nrtft
But have read OP.
No they arent a blackmailer, you are very very mistaken. They are a child, just ended Year 7? You (and your friend) need to be adults.

Would you expect adult sensibilities from a 3yo too when they wont give you their biscuit.

Appropriately tell off and punish the child (time out / no electronics for 2 hours) for their childish misbehaviour. That is what it is childish misbehaviour, and its very annoying for you to label it so perogitatively in adult terms.

@CherryHug

So why did your husband not simply follow him upstairs and remove it from him?

Grow a spine and parent him properly. Additional needs are no excuse for bad behaviour.

If you read my OP, DH and I were out. Our friend was in, and could hardly manhandle the child, could he?

Our friend is a very familiar fixture in our house.

@ThePlantsitter

My mind is kind of blown that you cannot see the connection between lavishing kindness on a a friend who is staying in your house with MH issues and the bad behaviour of your son with possible adhd whom you call names and fire over the top punishment at.

You say you are listening to people on this thread but you are not. I'm out I'm afraid, good luck with it all.

Ok, you too can cherry pick, I get it. This is the gauntlet we run in "Chat" so I'll take the rough with the smooth. Thank you for your input (that appears snarky, really isn't) as I am really reading, and will honestly ruminate.