So my 12 yo is a blackmailer...

[ThisOldSaddo]

We're having difficulties with our 12 year old.

He's insatiable for stuff - sweets, chocolate, pop, tech, gaming...he never listens and will always always always push boundaries. We call him Billy Wantsmore, because of this trait. He always takes it too far, esp when with his brother.

We are having him see an ADHD specialist in November, and that's the nearest private appointment we could get.

We have a friend visiting, he lost his job in lockdown and so we got him down to us as he's fragile, mentally, and was stoney broke!

Last night DH and I went to check out a local car for sale. Friend stayed home and kids were playing on their games upstairs.

Immediately we were out the door,
dS12 came down and said "I'm getting a Boost" from the treat drawer. DF said no, it's too late and it's the last one, your mum might want that. DS then said "if you don't let me have it, I'll tell mum you dented her can with the wheelbarrow" / this I had already figured out and it appears - oddly - DH and I were having a conversation about the new dent whilst this was happening at home - it's no big deal.

DF still said no, but DS took it anyway and went upstairs.

DF told us when we got home.

I am so ashamed of DS.

Nothing we do to discipline him works.

Please help me.

What do I do?

But it's not the taking of the chocolate bar that's so bad (although a 12 year old should stop when yold no), it's the blackmailing and rudeness with an adult.

This really needs to be dealt with now before it escalates into criminal behaviour when he's older.

Honestly I think you would be wise to do some kind of parenting course. They can be so great for little techniques for tricky situations and you gain so much confidence from having the support. Kids are not young for long, it's worth the effort to keep the harmony.

Well I don't think DF could have physically stopped him from hightailing it up the stairs with his booty, so I'm not particularly worried about the calibre of friend we have ensuring the house doesn't burn down whilst we pop out to test drive a car...DF did as much as he could, he also tried to talk him out of it by saying "your mum's not had one of them and that's the last one" but DS didn't care.

We have called him the nickname to his face, but not for ages now. I don't think we've called him a Machiavell, but he's not big on Shakespearean tropes, so shouldn't think he'd get onto it even if we did.

Have I gone nuclear? I am genuinely asking - this is where I fall down. I want to look this up in a book and then do what they say lol!

Nothing works with this boy. And it makes me wonder is that because I'm getting it wrong, whilst at the same time knowing there's no "right answer".

Physical activity is definitely the way forward, thank you to the poster who mentioned that. A tired dog is a good dog after all...

I had a chat with him this morning. Called him down before work and before the other two were up, DH already out and about, DF in bed (he was doing some physical bits in our garden, to fill his days, and hurt his back/sciatic nerve, hence the wheelbarrow accident). Anyway, there was lots of Kevin the Teenager style angst about even coming downstairs for a chat.

We both sat down, I told him that his behaviour last night was absolutely not on - filled him in on how awful DF would have felt at that moment, and how powerless and does he realise the effect this will have had on DF. I gave him his list and told him that we'll talk later as I was late, but he was missing out on the inflatable park today with his sibs. He asked how long he's on a tech ban for, I said "forever" which I know now I don't mean.

He's started playing Fortnite again, and DH and I have seen a marked reduction in his behaviour. So maybe we just don't let him play that any longer?

I'm otherwise at a loss.

What would you do to punish this? We will sit down and have a grown up conversation with him tonight, for sure - but what about the punishment?

Things I know - he's gorgeous, he loves animals and small kids - like actively moves towards them when out and about. Is kind and caring, when he wants to be. I know that he is a good boy and he'll be ok, but there's a real niggle that the next however many teen angst ridden years we have ahead are going to ruin the happiness of our little home, and as I said, we have two others (who don't give us any gip). So I know things will be ok in the end with him, it's just ALWAYS him who's giving us shit, and I don't want to live through 7 years of actual conflict.

Parenting is hard. I am so rubbish at this side of it.

I say this in the kindest possible way, you don’t seem to like your child.

It's possible to love your child to bits, whilst simultaneously hating his behaviour/attitude.

So far there's a lot of telling him how to behave. Obviously your expectations of him need to be clear, as do the consequences of not living up to them, but you also need to ask him why he behaves like this? Why does he constantly want things? What's driving that need? Does he feel able to control it or not? How can you help him to self regulate etc? Talk with him rather than at him.

I think you and your husband will have to draw some clear boundaries with him. You both absolutely have to be on the same page. But you seem to be heading in the right direction already.
Hang in there OP. I think you'll get this right by being ruthlessly consistent, but staying calm as much as possible throughout.

Stop labelling with a pejorative name. It’s not funny. I get it’s probably well intentioned humour however it’s unkind & demeaning.
You’re really overstating this into a big drama that it isn’t
You had a treat stash drawer, totally tempting to a child. He’s pulled a fast one to get a treat. Mildly inappropriate but actually no biggie on scheme of things

I think you have gone a bit nuclear on this. Tech and phone and missing out on a treat today for one (admittedly shit) action? Do you call him Billy Wantsmore or a Machiavellian genius to his face?

I don't think the OP overreacted at all. What her son tried to do wasn't just a bit naughty or impulsive--it was calculated and incredibly nasty. The kids I know all push the boundaries and misbehave but I can't imagine them doing something like that.

I say this in the kindest possible way, you don’t seem to like your child.

Well, the OP has two other kids who don't constantly cause trouble. I think it's fair to recognize that some human beings are inherently more difficult to get on with than others. That fact does not change before the person in question happens to be under 18.

I could have written your post re my DS. Exercise and regular food/drink helps.
Conversations when calm rather than during the escalating behaviour.

He's started playing Fortnite again, and DH and I have seen a marked reduction in his behaviour. So maybe we just don't let him play that any longer?

Fortnite led to the removal of the PlayStation in this house. Best thing I ever did in terms of their behaviour and family harmony.

My sister (a recovering alcoholic, 9 years and counting woop!) said that he's probably addicted. She's seen him with pop and stuff.

I agree, we shouldn't have it in the house. I certainly don't need it! But my husband and DF like a treat and as I said the other two are very good when it comes to that - they ask, every time.

I suppose I am being a little tantrummy about getting rid of all the good stuff, because one child can't control himself. And my problem is knowing what he should and shouldn't reasonably be expected to act like - but I'm fairly aware that blackmailing isn't cool.

God I was ashamed.

Parenting course a good idea, I'll have to look them up for this area and squeeze another hour out of my day!

Thank you all, am reading carefully. Listening to my elder sisters who've already trodden this path...

God so much hand wringing. Why would you tell him he was on a tech ban forever? If he's on the autistic spectrum as you suspect he may be, then don't pull this nonsense.

Just tell him off. You know how to do that yes? The moment has passed now, just leave it instead of trying to think up ways to punish him

I haven't read all the answers, but I would avoid labelling him with nicknames as that tends to cement the (unwanted) identity and it can leave them feeling on the margins of the family.

The rest of what you're doing sounds good. See if you can channel his mind in constructive ways (lateral thinking challenges, rubik's cube, escape rooms etc)

Fellow adhd parent here. No treats in the house. Impulse control is one of the bigger issues people with adhd struggle with. He knows they're there and it will beat on the inside of his house like a drum that won't stop.

Treats can be had outside the house. By all. Siblings of children with special needs have to have empathy for their siblings struggles and not having permanent access to junk food is a small concession in the scheme of things.

Lastly ask your school or gp to refer you for the incredible year's parenting course.

OP I’ve found with my DS he has to be almost babied WRT his routine, eating well and regularly and going to sleep at a good time. He is unable to regulate those things himself unlike my other son so we have a fixed routine (with some built in flexibility that we all agree on in advance) he takes melatonin at the same time every night, does his bedtime routine, and gets to read for an hour then lights out at the same time every night. He needs a lot of sleep and it really impacts his day if he is tired. Same with eating well. I really have to be on top of it. I can’t leave it up to him to make sure he feeds himself properly. And unlike my other son, if he doesn’t it well for a day it has a far greater impact on his mood and behaviour.

I think you may need to agree with DH that this child will need far more hands on parenting, right down to the basics, in order to get on top of these behaviours.

Reading more... can he volunteer at an animal rescue or stables?

Hi OP, not quite the same but my DS has been giving me loads of cheek recently. He's 8. We are going through the stage of 'I don't want to and you can't make me'. So way I am tackling it is to say ' you're right but you might want to do a, b, c otherwise these will be the consequences, or this is how it will affect you long term'. and I always reassure him that he's loved but we are disappointed by his behaviour. it's bloody hard though, and tiresome and FWIW the behaviour seems to be linked to that of peers - they are all feeding off each other at the moment.

“Nothing works with this boy”… you seem to be placing all the blame on your child and not reflecting on your role in this.

• Getting called a nickname is humiliating.
• At 12 I’m sure he can google machievelli (I can’t even spell it) and figure out it’s not nice.
• No phone or tech is torture for kids.
• Having a stranger in the house is disruptive.
• Being ostracised from family events is isolating.

Parenting is tough, but so is growing up. Chill a bit and reflect on just how hard YOU are making his life. I’m not condoning his actions but if someone did all of this to me I’d be pretty devastated & a little “sod you”… it certainly wouldn’t encourage me to behave or trust.

Unfortunately this issue particularly with food is very common with ADHD. However despite it being the monst mentioned issue on every ADJD forum you go on professionals don’t acknowledge it or offer any help.

It’s all well and good removing things from the house, this does not address the underlying reason for it and just moves the problem along. We now have a son who will take food from other people’s houses, take money to get people to buy sweets etc for him I’m very concerned the next stage is shoplifting.

It is very much like an addiction.

I had a child not unlike this and also very good with children etc. I won’t lie, he challenged us very much indeed during the teen years. Boundaries are essential and following through.

In your place I’d think carefully about sanctions such as the games and tech removal because he has form for nagging you until you give in and you have form for giving in I guess?

You didn’t mean ‘forever’ but said it anyway so he will simply try to wear you down. Use today to think about what exactly is fitting and how he can earn his privileges back. If he is impulsive then he won’t be able to ‘be good’ for ie six weeks to earn his stuff back so you’d be setting him up to fail and also to try to cheat the system.

Good luck with it. Don’t be too harsh and praise his successes. Maybe he should be helping DF with the gardening as his punishment?

My DS has emerged as a lovely man. Still a bit scattered but a fully functional adult with a job in an industry related to caring for people. He’s very empathetic which is extraordinary considering how he once was. Don’t despair but equally prepare for some challenges in the next few years.

We now have a son who will take food from other people’s houses, take money to get people to buy sweets etc for him I’m very concerned the next stage is shoplifting.

Yes we’ve had this too.

Oh I missed the bit about me not liking him. I was actually going to start the countdown in my post, but forgot.

I do not like him speaking to a grown up visitor, who is nothing but good to him, like this. Making him feel small about a mistake, using power over him.

I don't like him nicking food/crap to eat in his room.

I don't like him bouncing his elbow off the 8 year old's face, or lying on him so he can't breathe, whilst laughing...

As I said above, he's got a good heart, so I know he's going to be absolutely fine in this world. But I don't want his teenage angsty years to dictate the tone of our home.

What I want really is some thoughts on how you would punish this.

We're certainly going to have The Chat, but it was late last night and this morning work called, so it will have to be this evening. I'll take him out and so he'll have to talk to me/not storm off.

I don't pit him against the other two - ever. My mother did that with my rogue sister and I and we talk about how it felt to this day. The other two are, honestly, good as gold, but we have never used that as a weapon towards the eldest.

So far:

all treats removed
lock for door sorted (we have to have snacks for all three lunches, there's no getting around that)
he misses out today
loses tech and phone
stays in all day today with book
has chores (his usual chores, by the way, that he never does).

I wonder how long to remove his tech for, and whether we should ditch Fortnite in full (he plays with his cousins and buddies from school, as well as with his bro).

I like the child. I do NOT like this behaviour - I would have thought that was obvious, since I'm here, asking for help, as opposed to ignoring it or giving him a smack (which I guess is what people who really don't like their kids do?).

But thank you for that predictable input - I win the bingo game only I was playing!!

@MatildaTheCat

I had a child not unlike this and also very good with children etc. I won’t lie, he challenged us very much indeed during the teen years. Boundaries are essential and following through.

In your place I’d think carefully about sanctions such as the games and tech removal because he has form for nagging you until you give in and you have form for giving in I guess?

You didn’t mean ‘forever’ but said it anyway so he will simply try to wear you down. Use today to think about what exactly is fitting and how he can earn his privileges back. If he is impulsive then he won’t be able to ‘be good’ for ie six weeks to earn his stuff back so you’d be setting him up to fail and also to try to cheat the system.

Good luck with it. Don’t be too harsh and praise his successes. Maybe he should be helping DF with the gardening as his punishment?

My DS has emerged as a lovely man. Still a bit scattered but a fully functional adult with a job in an industry related to caring for people. He’s very empathetic which is extraordinary considering how he once was. Don’t despair but equally prepare for some challenges in the next few years.

Thanks Matilda, funnily enough he was in the garden with the fellas, helping out, and was liking it. It's at a stage now where he can't really help, but defo something to think about. Even as a toddler he loved to "help" me clean and tidy with a cloth!

It's just having to supervise him and nag him the whole time...until he takes flight and works alone, if you see what I mean?

I am glad that your chap is out the other side. I hear you - as I've said here, and to DH IRL, I can see that DS is going to be fine. I know it. What I don't want is for our home life, and joy, to be dictated by his moods for the next 5/7/10 years. But perhaps that's just being the mother of a teen?

Thank you again, food for thought.

OP one thing i have found useful when faced with either a bad behaviour situation or a request from DS (that’s usually a boundary pusher) is to say to him “I’m going to take some time to think about this” he will usually say “how much time???” And I’ll tell him I don’t know, I’ll tell him when I’m ready to discuss it. Don’t be put on the spot either to issue a consequence or provide a response to something. Take your time to think it through, talk it over with your DH and even seek some advice elsewhere like your sisters or MN etc.

@Angel2702

Unfortunately this issue particularly with food is very common with ADHD. However despite it being the monst mentioned issue on every ADJD forum you go on professionals don’t acknowledge it or offer any help.

It’s all well and good removing things from the house, this does not address the underlying reason for it and just moves the problem along. We now have a son who will take food from other people’s houses, take money to get people to buy sweets etc for him I’m very concerned the next stage is shoplifting.

It is very much like an addiction.

Thank you Angel, that is interesting. We're still not there with a diagnosis, but got in as early as we could with Dr Thevan, who comes highly recommended.

I am hoping from that we get the tools to deal with properly.