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Original poster

Do you think Henry VIII loved any of his wives?

217 replies

TheCactus1 · 23/08/2021 14:52

Do you think Henry VIII was actually in love with any of his wives? I know marriages at this time were often not for love but more to secure wealth and Henry VIII seemed to view his wives as disposable, but do you think he actually ever loved any of them at any point? Some have said he genuinely loved Jane Seymour but I wonder if this was just because she gave him a son?

OP posts:
IReallyLikeCrows · 23/08/2021 19:55

I don't think he really knew what love was. I think he "loved" his wives when they were doing what he wanted, so for instance, while Catherine of Aragon was still of childbearing years and actually getting pregnant he "loved" her. He was besotted with Anne and more so when she was getting pregnant but she was too independent of mind for him and It's possible that he knew Jane Seymour was pregnant at the time of Anne's execution given that she gave birth in October, five months after the execution. He "loved" her because she gave him his much wanted legitimate son. Before the birth of Edward, in the summer of 1936, there had been plans underway to legitimise his son by Elizabeth Blunt (Henry Fitzroy) but the young man died, making the arrival of Edward even more important.

There are stories of how much he loved Jane and mourned her but he was back to normal very quickly, as noted by those around him at the time. Anne of Cleves was not "loved" by him but in a way, she may have been the woman he came closest to loving in a more platonic way as they remained on very friendly terms upon the annulment of the marriage and he looked after her with money and property. It's long been claimed that he annulled the marriage because the painting of her was not accurate and she was "ugly". Maybe he did say that but accounts of the time say that the painting was accurate, which in my mind makes her more attractive than the other wives. Also, if Hans Holbein had tricked him with a painting it's unlikely that he'd have maintained his position, so the "photoshopping" is almost certainly a bollocks. Can't really figure out why he divorced her but by this stage he was often impotent, so who knows.

Catherine Howard was an old man's cock leading his addled brain and as we know Catherine Parr was a nurse to look after him who absolutely did not want to marry him but was in no position to turn him down.

By the last decade or so of his life, when a lot of his divorcing and beheading took place it's thought that he was suffering from some sort of brain damage. He was unconscious for a couple of hours after a fall from his jousting horse in January 1536 and that wasn't the first head injury he had. If he hadn't started out as some sort of narcissistic rage monster, from 1536 he pretty much was a nightmare.

CloseYourEyesAndSee · 23/08/2021 19:56

@LimitIsUp

I also believe he loved Catherine of Aragon (sorry to be prickly, but it's not Katherine)

Isn't it Catalina?

terrywynne · 23/08/2021 20:02

But you also see this with, for example, mothers whose children were taken into care or adopted, and who are then reunited. It's not as if Margaret had a free choice to see Henry and just didn't fancy it - it must have been quite painful, I think?

Very painful. And she was 13 years old. 13. And he was her only child.

I always think that while our beliefs, outlook on the world etc have changed over centuries, the basic emotions - love, anger, jealousy etc - are all there even if the expression of them seem alien to us.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

History The royal family
SarahAndQuack · 23/08/2021 20:04

YY, I think her being 13 must have had to do with it. I can't imagine. Sad

Original poster
TheCactus1 · 23/08/2021 20:09

Wow the replies on here are fascinating, loads of really interesting points of view!

OP posts:
yourestandingonmyneck · 23/08/2021 20:11

@terrywynne

But you also see this with, for example, mothers whose children were taken into care or adopted, and who are then reunited. It's not as if Margaret had a free choice to see Henry and just didn't fancy it - it must have been quite painful, I think?

Very painful. And she was 13 years old. 13. And he was her only child.

I always think that while our beliefs, outlook on the world etc have changed over centuries, the basic emotions - love, anger, jealousy etc - are all there even if the expression of them seem alien to us.

13 Sad

As I understand it, this was too young, even then, and was frowned upon. Apparently when she married Edmund Tudor, at age 12, he was instructed to leave her alone until she was a bit older. But he didn't, and she ended up having a traumatic birth at only age 13.

Original poster
TheCactus1 · 23/08/2021 20:11

Also perhaps my wording was wrong, I wasn’t meaning that people of the past didn’t love their children, of course that would be nonsense, I just wondered if the parent/child relationship was different to one we’d recognise today although no less loving

OP posts:
BalloonSlayer · 23/08/2021 20:11

It has been speculated that Anne Boleyn was Rhesus negative, which may explain why she had her first child with ease, but then had lots of late traumatic miscarriages. Poor Anne.

We are so lucky to live when we do.

WTFIsTheAnswerToThis · 23/08/2021 20:16

I find it interesting that at least two people have referred to Henry as bewitched by Anne Boleyn. Isn't it funny how things (especially attitudes to women) still echo through the ages? I know she was actually on trial for adultery etc but the "Anne Boleyn was a witch" is so recurrent throughout history.

(I would like to draw some present day parallels here but don't want to derail the thread Grin)

Spudlet · 23/08/2021 20:17

If I was going to be one of them, it would be Anne of Cleves. She got to have a comfortable, independent life with no risks from childbirth and no husband to rule her life, and as a foreign princess - and moreover a woman who had been able to give Henry exactly what he wanted from her - she was relatively safe. Sounds good to me!

WTFIsTheAnswerToThis · 23/08/2021 20:20

Imagine a Catherine of Aragon/Margaret Beaufort MIL MN thread Grin

I do think they were actually quite similar women in lots of ways - huge amount of inner strength, unshakeable religious convictions, stick to your principles no matter what etc.

IReallyLikeCrows · 23/08/2021 20:22

I'd definitely be Anne of Cleves. No man, especially no main with an ulcerated leg that must have stunk to high heaven, your own property, free to do whatever you wanted in a time when that was far from the norm. I bet she had a top life.

banisher · 23/08/2021 20:24

I did my thesis (god knows how many years ago now) on early modern representations of children.

I remember one clergyman in particular who wrote about his family and their utter grief every time they lost a small infant; his children's illnesses and troubles fill page after page.

I don't know why we do it, look back and assume that people just didn't care somehow: they did and were bereaved beyond belief. I assume it's partly to make the past seem less painful ("they just dealt with it all better! They weren't that attached!")

It's also a feminist issue: a bunch of old single male academics tended to write history, and they sort of distanced themselves more from all of that. One moronic chap in particular mentioned above has been disproved time and time again but his work keeps bloody popping up in this sort of accepted way.

Pixxie7 · 23/08/2021 20:25

Agree with pp Katherine of Aragon and possibly Anne Boleyn not sure about the others though.

banisher · 23/08/2021 20:25

They were also only 30 or so generations ago. 30 women between us and them.

PicsInRed · 23/08/2021 20:29

@IntermittentParps

banisher, precisely! There is no point getting exercised about Tudor spellings.
Spellings Spyllyngf Grin
PicsInRed · 23/08/2021 20:32

Henry was evey shockingly abusive husband we see on the relationships board, except with enough power (and little enough shame) to actually have his wife and even her support system brutally murdered.

He loved only himself.

TartanJumper · 23/08/2021 20:32

My uneducated opinion:
I think people were not expected to marry for love in those days (well, rich people anyway!). They married for heirs and for power/prestige/allegiances with important people.

TartanJumper · 23/08/2021 20:34

@Spudlet

If I was going to be one of them, it would be Anne of Cleves. She got to have a comfortable, independent life with no risks from childbirth and no husband to rule her life, and as a foreign princess - and moreover a woman who had been able to give Henry exactly what he wanted from her - she was relatively safe. Sounds good to me!
Agree! She was know as the Kings Dear Sister, wasn't she? Given an allowance and allowed to be fairly free. Of all of them, I'd be her.
Cam2020 · 23/08/2021 20:35

I also believe he loved Catherine of Aragon (sorry to be prickly, but it's not Katherine)

There was no standardised spelling! She was and is referred to Katherine, Katharine and Catherinem why be that person?

banisher · 23/08/2021 20:36

I'm getting confused now between fact and fiction ("The Boleyn Inheritance") but I think Anne of Cleves had a tricky youth and then a nightmarish marriage and difficult tightrope walk to divorce the king.

But yes, overall she had the best luck of them all (although possibly if she'd wanted to have children of her own she'd missed out).

Cam2020 · 23/08/2021 20:37

Spellings Spyllyngf

Love it! 😂

grafittiartist · 23/08/2021 20:38

I may be wrong but Jane Seymour and Henry are laid to rest together.
He must have loved her ( she gave him a son) .

Yourstupidityexhaustsme · 23/08/2021 20:42

I think he truly did love Catherine of Aragon.

He had a jousting accident and fell from his horse and was terribly injured. Historians think he suffered a brain injury because he suffered such a change of personality.

Cam2020 · 23/08/2021 20:44

Anne was intelligent and educated and by all accounts they explored intellectual concepts together and had a genuine relationship until she didn't produce a son

Her religious views were also problematic. What's attractive in a mistress wasn't always what a man - especially a King - wanted from a wife. She was a loose cannon.