Do you think Henry VIII loved any of his wives?

[TheCactus1]

Do you think Henry VIII was actually in love with any of his wives? I know marriages at this time were often not for love but more to secure wealth and Henry VIII seemed to view his wives as disposable, but do you think he actually ever loved any of them at any point? Some have said he genuinely loved Jane Seymour but I wonder if this was just because she gave him a son?

He was certainly infatuated with Anne Boleyn considering what he did to marry her.

Of all of them, I think he was probably most likely to have loved Anne of Cleves but only a platonic way. If you look at her lifestyle etc, because of him, it’s more than anyone else in his court consistently received.

@GreenWillow

He was utterly besotted with Katherine Howard, in fact had to be stopped from killing her himself when her infidelity came to light.

Bit of a mid life crisis kind of love though if you ask me, he was literally old enough to be her grandfather.

That's not love, that's ownership.

The giving birth on back thing came from a 17th century French doctor allegedly

www.snopes.com/fact-check/king-louis-xiv-fetish-birth/

Yes I think all of them. I think he was probably in love with the idea of love. He had lots of mistresses aswell. I think the one he loved the most was Catherine of Aragan in the initial years.

Anne of Cleaves less so but I believe they became quite amicable friends of sorts.

I think many marriages were about amiable companionship, love wasn't an expectation but I think they felt infatuation deeply. Life was shorter, more brutal, people died of causes that wouldn't harm us today, perhaps that led to a greater intensity of love?

@SirVixofVixHall

Henry is thought to have had a significant brain injury which may have left him with an altered personality.

Absolutely this - apparently this accident changed his personality significantly

I also believe he loved Catherine of Aragon (sorry to be prickly, but it's not Katherine)

I think Henry was in love with the thought of being in love. He needed to see himself as the dashing, handsome, chivalrous suitor.

Though we can see him as, in effect, the serial wife murderer, he saw himself as the eternally amorous young king.

His first ill judged surprise meeting with Anne of Cleeves, his obsession with Katherine Howard, his determined wooing of Lady Latimer, Catherine Parr, all point to a man desperately clinging on to his self image of (long lost) youthful vigour.

I think he was in love with Catherine of Aragon in their very early days together, and he was certainly captivated by Anne Boleyn when she first came to court.

But he fell out of love just as quickly!

Of all of them, Katherine Parr is my favourite, though marrying Thomas Seymour sadly was a poor decision on her part.

I think Katherine Parr is my favourite too!

Ann of Cleves is quite interesting. She and Henry were on friendly terms after their divorce. She played the game wisely, giving him the hassle-free divorce he wanted so he could marry Katherine Howard. She smoothed his ego by giving him what he wanted without demur.

She got a fair amount of property and cash (and dogs) and took precedence at court being second only to the Queen (and any children that the last two marriages might produce).

Henry went to stay with her for a week on at least one occasion. She spent two days in bed afterwards, leading to rumours that he had got her pregnant, which she had to deny.

She never remarried or had children (and back then you couldn't have one - or at least precontract - without the other). Perhaps that would have been a step too far with an ego like Henry's. Anyway, she spent the left of her life in England, with a reputation for piety and being a damn good hostess. not a bad deal as the outlook would have been bleak if she'd returned to Cleves.

What's wrong with Katherine (or Katharina or Catalina or whatever you like)?

With the exception of Anne of Cleeves (who was the only one he did not meet before marriage - unusual for royalty), I think Henry loved them all in his own way.

None of the others touched the sides of his marriage to Catherine of Aragon for length and it's worth noting he was approaching middle age (by their standards when he divorced her.

Off the top of my head, in order;
Catherine of Aragon - 20+ years
Anne Boleyn - 3 years
Jane Seymour - 18months
Anne of Cleeves - under a year
Katherine Howard- 18 months
Katherine Parr - 6 years

The last Quern is interesting as she ruled the country in his absence and brought up both his younger children in the Protestant faith by appointing sympathetic tutors and household staff . It's worth noting that Henry idolised married life and spent most of his formative years around females - unlike most royal heirs, as the second son he lived with his sisters and mother for most of his childhood and was expected to go into the Church. He needed sons and if any had survived, he would never have divorced Katherine of Aragon. It's odd to think that the English Reformation may never have happened if not for that accident of history.

There was more to Katherine Parr than just being his nursemaid. I think he loved Aragon in a way in the beginning, was besotted with Boleyn, loved the idea of Jane Seymour, fancied Howard and admired and respected Parr.

I was recently reading into the reports that Katherine Parr enabled and supported the sexual abuse (childhood) of Elizabeth 1st. Obviously nothing is proven, but the accounts are pretty compelling.

Made me see her in a completely different light. I think Anne of Cleeves was well respected overall by Henry, but I think he loved Catherine of Aragon (and probably the idea of Jane Seymour) they’d hardly been together long when she died and for a lot of that he was away at another palace.

Lusted after Anne Boleyn and Katherine Howard.

The thing about Anne of Cleves is that she probably had the best deal of all! OK so it wasn't a romantic 'marriage', swiftly annulled, but I believe that they were actually very good friends for the rest of his life. Didn't she 'mother' the 3 children as well, holding quite an important role at Court?

@MoonlightTwilight I think she closed her eyes and didn't t accept what was actually going on between Elizabeth and Thomas Seymour. She had waited so long to be with him, she just couldn't believe it.

While the trail of dead and mistreated women Henry left behind him is obviously deplorable, in a way he was a victim of his own upbringing and circumstances.

One of Philippa Gregory's novels has a line that I always find interesting and perceptive: Henry's mother says something like 'It's my fault because I raised him to be an indulged second son, not a king.'

I always think Anne must have had a horrible life in Cleves to have chosen to stay in England, with the constant risk of being executed on Henry's whim. She was very clever and played her hand well, she was also a lovely person and very popular.

She was the last of Henry's wives to die, good trick trivia question there.

@PurpleVerbena I think she certainly knew how to play the system. She seems pretty pragmatic. I suppose life at Court at Cleve's would've been a bit crap, at least in England she had the dignity of being known as the King's sister and lived splendidly (I think).

*Cleves

@IntermittentParps I thought Elizabeth of York died young? I remember reading a comparison her and her two sons about 20 or so years ago,with another more recent case . . .

Oh, maybe I'm misremembering it (who said it). Or maybe it was written with dramatic licence

Probably me who got it wrong, or the writer who was trying to create the comparison. Will Google in a minute.

I always think Anne must have had a horrible life in Cleves to have chosen to stay in England, with the constant risk of being executed on Henry's whim.

Was she at risk? He was certainly a very unpredictable character but I thought they always had an amicable relationship after the divorce?

It feels to me as if Henry VIII had the most modern attitude to love of any king until Edward VIII. He wanted to feel it - agree that he idolised love itself, courtly romance.

Katharine of Aragon had value to him and I agree he probably did have love for her that we might recognise. She was the disruptor though. The great what-if of 16thC history - if she had had a healthy son, had died or had faded gracefully to a nunnery with a divorce.

I simply can't bring myself to want to be any of them, even for a few minutes.

Catherine of Aragon 😬

@BalloonSlayer and @IntermittentParps Elizabeth of York was about 37 when she died. So relatively young but not tragically for the time.

@Liverbird77 and @MoonlightTwilight bear in mind there wasn't really a concept of child sexual abuse at the time. i think she tried to deny what he was doing as a "playful father" figure. when it went too far she sent Elizabeth away. Probably a little too late but sadly it often takes people time to see the truth