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Original poster

Do you think Henry VIII loved any of his wives?

217 replies

TheCactus1 · 23/08/2021 14:52

Do you think Henry VIII was actually in love with any of his wives? I know marriages at this time were often not for love but more to secure wealth and Henry VIII seemed to view his wives as disposable, but do you think he actually ever loved any of them at any point? Some have said he genuinely loved Jane Seymour but I wonder if this was just because she gave him a son?

OP posts:
toolazytothinkofausername · 23/08/2021 15:22

No as much as he loved his food Grin

Popsicle438 · 23/08/2021 15:27

I think the parent/ child bond must have been different at that time, especially in aristocratic households. The children were brought up by surrogates,with royal children having their own household. The parents can't have seen that much of them. Besides, many would die before reaching adulthood so it was perhaps better for parents not to become too attached.
The one I am sure Henry really loved was Anne Boleyn. Look what lengths he went to, to marry her. Whether she was genuinely in love with him is another matter.

nomoreflyaby · 23/08/2021 15:28

Yes, in his own way.

I think he was often infatuated dependant on who the woman was - For Anne Boleyn that was her ways and her ability to keep him hanging by a thread.

For Jane Seymour that was because she gave him a son. A living son. And he once declared her his only true love. Of course! She gave him what he wanted.

Overall though I think the route to his ways was the sheer indulgence he was given and pandering. He was a brat.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

History The royal family
nomoreflyaby · 23/08/2021 15:29

The one I am sure Henry really loved was Anne Boleyn. Look what lengths he went to, to marry her. Whether she was genuinely in love with him is another matter.

Infatuation is not love. He loved the chase

Popsicle438 · 23/08/2021 15:33

Infatuation is not love. He loved the chase

To be perfectly honest, I'm not sure what the difference is.

randomlyLostInWales · 23/08/2021 15:35

I think he may have loved Katherine of Aragon, as he fought to marry her but I think the Tudors not being very stable dynsasty added pressure to have a son that and her being older and not doing what he wanted in end I think eroded his affection for her.

I think he felt strongly about Anne Boleyn which probably turned to hate later on as his disappointment grew.

Jane Semour - not so sure while she was alive - but giving him a son and then dying so she couldn't disappoint or grow old or lose potential heirs- she was then his favorite.

Ann of cleves -poltical marriage so no. Katherine Howard - old fool really lust rather than love.

Catherine Parr - I think he wanted an experience step mother and someone use to running a household which she was to bring some peace to his.

Muminabun · 23/08/2021 15:38

I think Henry loved Catherine of Aragon she was a huge influence not just on him but on Elizabeth more so than Henry. She was remarkable and a powerful person. He loved anne of cleves they apparently became good friends and she was to be treated as the kings sister. I assume he loved Katherine parr as they got on well. The others were too young to manage his enormous god complex and royal ego hence came a cropper.

SarahAndQuack · 23/08/2021 15:45

@Kanaloa

I know I’ve read before about how children were often viewed as little adults which has made me wonder if the parent/child bond in this period was quite different to what we recognise today

Definitely this. For royalty and other aristocratic type people it was common for the parents not to take much involvement with their children after birth, they would be handed straight to a nurse/nanny who would care for them. I think familial bonds were less strong/prioritised compared to now.

This is a myth, based on some seriously dodgy research by Philippe Aries, who has been widely discredited.

It's just not true at all.

Sorry, that's my pet hate.

I think he loved Katherine of Aragon, in a very romantic, hearts-and-flowers, isn't it wonderful we're in love with love kind of way. I don't think he loved any of the others.

IntermittentParps · 23/08/2021 15:45

Also interesting - which one of them would you choose to have been?
Catherine P. First English queen to publish books in her own name. She was awesome.

bananamushy · 23/08/2021 15:48

Did he even know them?

TheMoth · 23/08/2021 15:51

I think we like to think people didn't love the same way etc, but I don't think people have really changed that much. Men tended to do most of the writing, so we don't get to hear much about women's feelings. I don't think people loved they children any less. I thin modern parents are a bit too over invested. I also wonder if a historian, looking back at parents like me, might infer that I don't love my children, as I've farmed them out to others all their lives. I guess my equivalent would be a woman too busy running her household to look after her children so would hand over to an older child/ maid whatever.

I think it was easier to 'love' if you were poor, cos no one really gave a fuck who you married (if you even did). But I also think love is infatuation, which clearly serves a purpose from an evolutionary perspective, so that would have always been there.

MiaRoma · 23/08/2021 15:51

@SirVixofVixHall

Henry is thought to have had a significant brain injury which may have left him with an altered personality.

That was much later wasn't it? When Anne (B) was on her way out.

ragged · 23/08/2021 15:53

K. of Aragon yes -- as others point out, he was besotted with her for long period.

Lust for AnneB, Kath Howard, Jane.

Anne of Cl: never
Kath. Parr: convenience and appearances

Except K of Aragon they were all stupidly younger than himself. Nubile things that flattered his ego.

SarahAndQuack · 23/08/2021 15:57

I don't think ten years is 'stupidly younger' really.

SarahAndQuack · 23/08/2021 15:57

@IntermittentParps

Also interesting - which one of them would you choose to have been? Catherine P. First English queen to publish books in her own name. She was awesome.
OMG yes! She was awesome. I would love to be her except, please, with modern medical knowledge so I don't have to die in childbirth.
terrywynne · 23/08/2021 15:58

I think he loved it at least had affection for Catherine of Aragon. The performative chivalric displays of love (chivalric love was a thing) make it hard to see the real emotions. I certainly think he respected her abilities (she was fab, her father even gave her ambasadorial credentials to negotiate with Henry VII agterbarthur died) - he left her in charge of the country (officially regent) when he went to war with France in 1513. And it wasn't just ceremonial - he was forwarding correspondence to her and she started mustering an army to fight Scotland and prepared to travel north with it (didn't need to in then end because there was another English army already in the north that had the battle before she could get there)

terrywynne · 23/08/2021 16:02

And I would be Catherine of Aragon. Ok the end of her story is very sad but she was fab. Because female rule was accepted in Spain (there were various queens in their own right) she was educated to rule. And see my post above for her actually acting for herself- ok she was surrounded by male advisors and had men to be actual military commanders but she was not just "a pretty face". And she held by her values and beliefs even as Henry ditched her (ok, arguably she might have been better off to be less stubborn but i admire that she had that strong sense of her principles and stuck to them).

Gimlisaxe · 23/08/2021 16:06

I think he had a lot of respect for Anne of Cleves more so than any other of his wives.

I also think he was a stubborn man and if anyone told him no, then he would go and do the opposite

Hoppinggreen · 23/08/2021 16:09

@Purplesparkle34

I think he did love Jane Seymour. Probably because she gave him a son. Of all of his wives I think she was certainly the favourite, and the ones after her couldn’t match up.
I expect she died before she could disappoint him
Cam2020 · 23/08/2021 16:22

And I would be Catherine of Aragon. Ok the end of her story is very sad but she was fab. Because female rule was accepted in Spain (there were various queens in their own right) she was educated to rule. And see my post above for her actually acting for herself- ok she was surrounded by male advisors and had men to be actual military commanders but she was not just "a pretty face". And she held by her values and beliefs even as Henry ditched her (ok, arguably she might have been better off to be less stubborn but i admire that she had that strong sense of her principles and stuck to them.

Completely agree. I love that she led battle herself and wasn't prepared to be the little wifey at home while Henry was figting in France. She was courageous and very much loved by the people.

DelphiniumBlue · 23/08/2021 16:22

I've seen letters between Henry and Katherine of Aragon, and they are really moving and loving, especially before and after the death of their baby son. He clearly did love her at that point.

WTFIsTheAnswerToThis · 23/08/2021 16:25

I absolutely love Catherine of Aragon myself Grin To answer the original question, I believe Henry believed he loved her when he married her, and agree with PP that had any of their children lived, their relationship history (as well as England's history) would have been very different.

Catherine of Aragon is an amazing figure. Sometimes I occupy myself by imagining what it would have been like had MN been around then. She would have been advised against the Pick Me dance for sure (not to make light of it as I believe she showed amazing strength and courage and integrity etc).

I wish Henry's wives were as "well known" as he is. I think lots of people just know the basic "divorced, beheaded, died...." rhyme and aren't aware of, for example, the length of his first marriage before everything changed.

PlanDeRaccordement · 23/08/2021 16:27

I think he had a sort of possessive obsession with each of his wives, except Anne of Cleves who he hated on first sight.

WTFIsTheAnswerToThis · 23/08/2021 16:28

@DelphiniumBlue

I've seen letters between Henry and Katherine of Aragon, and they are really moving and loving, especially before and after the death of their baby son. He clearly did love her at that point.
Yes, and her final "deathbed" letter to him...amazing. Surely he must have actually felt some secret guilt inside despite dancing up a storm Hmm
terrywynne · 23/08/2021 16:31

I wish Henry's wives were as "well known" as he is. I think lots of people just know the basic "divorced, beheaded, died...." rhyme and aren't aware of, for example, the length of his first marriage before everything changed.

I wish Henry's wives whose initials aren't AB were as well known as she is...