Central Park Karen

[CanIPleaseHaveOne]

Did anyone come across this? It is really worth listening to.

podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-real-story-of-the-central-park-karen/id1570872415?i=1000530855326

@Leavesofautumn

If the use of "Karen" is putting that many people off clicking on the link, then surely a better way of getting people to listen would be to not use the "Karen" thing in the first place.

This has happened so many times. If you know full well that the "Karen" thing is stopping people from listening to you about racism, and you choose to keep using it anyway, then that's on you. Loads of women have said they'll listen to you if you quit this one small thing, but no, you've deliberately chosen the approach that you knew would cause an argument.

So loads of women will listen if the name Karen is not used. Really, what other excuses will be used to ignore the racism issue.

Loads of women have said they'll listen to you if you quit this one small thing, but no, you've deliberately chosen the approach that you knew would cause an argument.

Fancy new tone policing.

"I would be happy to listen if you would only be less forceful in your approach, if you would only stop seeing racism where I don't see it, if you would only recognise that not all white people are racist, if you would only stop being so sensitive, if you would only realise that some white people just don't know any better," etc., etc., pathetic excuse after pathetic excuse.

This is why I’ve posted. I’m not offering any excuse, I simply don’t have the time, energy or motivation to do more than I do. The same applies to other types of discrimination - it’s simply not in my direct experience. I supported my black work colleague. I’m a football steward and got a spectator removed for using racist language towards a player. I will always act when I see it. I don’t need black people to change their behaviour or language to encourage me to do more. I’m already exhausted having other battles

So loads of women will listen if the name Karen is not used. Really, what other excuses will be used to ignore the racism issue.

Plenty of women in this thread have told you exactly that, yes.

I think this thread highlights two important issues.
The significant endemic racism that forms part of the USA experience.
And
The disproportionate levels of blame placed distinctly on woman.

Neither of these issues are new and they are both important.

It is notable to me living in the USA how little traction Breonna Taylor's death got compared to the male deaths at the same time. Black woman are also impacted by the male narratives that are commonly told.

So you’re willing to discuss racism as long as the language is changed to ensure white people’s feelings remain at the centre? Makes a change

@Makhiaman

So you’re willing to discuss racism as long as the language is changed to ensure white people’s feelings remain at the centre? Makes a change

Yeah, noted 🙄🤔

@Leavesofautumn

So loads of women will listen if the name Karen is not used. Really, what other excuses will be used to ignore the racism issue.

Plenty of women in this thread have told you exactly that, yes.

Wow.

I was on the last thread and listened to the podcast and re-watched the video.

I did not change my mind that AC deliberately chose to try and weaponise CC's race against him.

They were alone when she said she would call the police to say an African American man was threatening her.

It was not in that context a "descriptor". She knew he was black because she was looking at him and I think it's indisputable that CC was aware of his skin colour.

It was a threat, pure and simple. A threat made because she was pissed off about being challenged re: having her dog off lead in a place she shouldn't.

All this "new" information smacks of a person who's now "lawyered up" to sue her former employer and is providing "mitigation" in the form of a revisionist narrative.

As for the "Karen" argument. I'll admit I don't like the use of that name.

That said I don't think it's appropriate to derail a thread about racism with objections, especially when it's actually used in the context of the title of the podcast in question.

If you don't like this term then perhaps start a thread on that specific topic or lobby MNHQ to give/chance guidance on its usage etc etc

@endofthelinefinally

Whatever anyone thinks of the people involved in that altercation, the slur "karen" is such a horrible thing to call anybody. It is used far too often by people who actually have no idea what it really means.

Reducing an act of racism to 'an altercation' while making a point of how awful it is to be branded a 'Karen'

@Makhiaman

Yes the slur ‘Karen’ is sooo oppressive and offensive, but the racism is forgivable as long as you have a really good sob story

The theme of this thread.

I don’t think Amy Cooper has been subjected to a “disproportionate level of blame.” She was rightly denounced for her racist actions. The only decent thing she did was to apologise, but that apology has been essentially erased by her doubling down on the “scary black man/poor white woman” narrative.

@endofthelinefinally

I am certainly not saying racism is in any way acceptable. I have a good friend whose teenage sin called her a karen over something trivial. She was really upset. I think he just heard it at school and trotted it out without thinking. That is what I mean by saying that using these awful slurs casually is wrong.

Yes, your friend being upset by her child's rudeness is totally comparable to a black man having the police called on him where many end up dead.

Still a racist piece of shit.
"I'm going to call the police and tell them an AFRICAN AMERICAN man is threatening me"
That will never not be racist.

I’d phone the police as well if some creep was following me around and filming me.

@Makhiaman

I wish so called feminists would consider the effects racism has on black women's lives to the same level they consider the effect a silly name has on a white woman’s feelings.

🗣👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽🙌🏽

@Klmnope I’m sure most of us would, but we wouldn’t try to get a disproportionate or lethal response from the police based on the colour of his skin

@Klmnope

I’d phone the police as well if some creep was following me around and filming me.

Well, that’s isn’t what happened in this incident.

@Klmnope

I’d phone the police as well if some creep was following me around and filming me.

Oh so he's a creep now. Nice. Any other disparaging words you want to throw at a black man?

@Perching

I detest it when women are called ‘Karen’ So misogynistic

Oh here we go. Didn't take long to ignore the elephant in the room, that is racism.

Oops, posted too soon. I meant that isn’t what happened in this incident. Christian Cooper wasn’t a creep following Amy Cooper around. He was a birdwatcher who asked her to put a lead on her dog. She refused to do so and he (prudently) began filming. The rest of the incident is there for all to see, including her aggression and phone call to the police.

Yes this. Where’s the male equivalent or is it just about keeping women quiet?

Darren. Kevin. Karen's brother.
No it's not.
Next?

According to some on here, they will suddenly be open to hearing about racism, once their conditions are met.

I read the first two pages of this, and then skipped to the end on the basis that surely by this point people would have got back to discussing what happened in Central park rather than whether white women were being unfairly victimised. It seems that I was a bit over-optimistic.

Anyway, my view is while the situation is possibly a bit more nuanced than it first seemed in terms of the behaviour of the birdwatcher, nothing I've seen or heard so far excuses the behaviour of the woman who called the police, and that video was a huge wake-up call for me in terms of how naïve I had been about the weaponising of fragile white femininity, which I had previously thought of as rare and extreme behaviour.

a huge wake-up call for me in terms of how naïve I had been about the weaponising of fragile white femininity, which I had previously thought of as rare and extreme behaviour.

Not if you're on Mumsnet. It's displayed in about every other topic.