Anyone dated a surgeon, please talk to me

[Annabet]

Met someone great, we get on so well. My job is very intense, I work long hours as a barrister and it can be relentless. I make time for friends and family and will do nice things when I can like a meal out or a trip away.

This man has explained that he sees friends once a year if that he generally doesn’t take annual leave unless he’s writing a paper… he sees family a few times a year but fleetingly. They never actually do anything like go out for a meal etc.

We’ve obviously done nice things together but it’s generally my ideas and he seems to relax when we do them. But it’s also like pulling teeth a bit, like he doesn’t know how to have fun without encouragement. He’s early 40s never married but apparently wants the whole family thing… his approach to day to day things like going out or watching a film make me sceptical he could achieve this

Guess I’m wondering if this is him or a direct product of his job? I know surgeons are busy people but do most relax a bit on days off and want to do things and have a holiday etc? I don’t want to waste my time on someone and feel that if this is him rather than just his job then he’s unlikely to get any better at downtime…

I used to babysit regularly for a surgeon and his doctor wife. They had a very busy social life.

@HollowTalk that’s what I didn’t want to hear! Maybe time to cut ties with this one

He uses his job as a reason he’s not yet ever had a pet that he desperately wants, that he can’t go to a proper gym, that he’s never climbed snowdon (!), that he’s never had a girlfriend, that he misses his family, that his friendships suffer…

I was thinking gosh how has boris managed to have two kids in a pandemic if that’s the effect on a surgeon

What grade is he? I’d assume in his early 40’s with no dependents and that career focused he’s probably a consultant but at the least he’ll be a registrar. IME, surgeons spend a lot of time at work. They can and do have families but surgery is not a family friendly speciality. The higher up the ladder you go, the more time you have (in theory) but that doesn’t often play out. Annual leave and hours wise, if they work in the NHS and are consultants they have 6 weeks AL, 2 weeks study leave and public holidays. They do get time off. Some will also do private work in their NHS down time, which eats into their personal hours.

TBH, this guy sounds like a pain in the arse. He’s already telling you he’s too busy to see you and you’ve barely even started! I’d walk away now.

N.B. I’ve never been romantically involved with a surgeon but I used to work with a lot of them in a clinical capacity.

I know a lot of surgeons. Most of them have families, hobbies, lives.

The ones that don't are not ones I enjoy spending any time with tbh. Most surgeons have something of a God complex going on, but these ones go well beyond. They're not that important but the definitely think they are 🙄

It’s not the job, he’s a workaholic.
Medicine attracts a lot of these, and they get a great deal of self-satisfaction from martyring themselves for ‘the greater good’, but there’s really no need. Plenty of surgeons/ medical doctors manage to have a decent work/life balance.
I’m a doctor, married to another doctor, lots of surgeon friends.

@TwinsTrollsAndHunz thanks for the insight! Yep it’s been a bit strange. I found his approach to friends a bit worrying mostly. From what I can tell he’s not seen a friend for over a year and just doesn’t seem to make effort with them.

We have a great time together but it’s like a broken record about all the things he wishes he could do and hasn’t. Like climbing bloody snowdon… I said let’s take a day leave and do it…he’s not sure, he can’t just take a day off etc etc All a bit strange but I have nothing to compare it to! He’s definitely single.

@fluffysocksgoodbookwine

It’s not the job, he’s a workaholic. Medicine attracts a lot of these, and they get a great deal of self-satisfaction from martyring themselves for ‘the greater good’, but there’s really no need. Plenty of surgeons/ medical doctors manage to have a decent work/life balance. I’m a doctor, married to another doctor, lots of surgeon friends.

@fluffysocksgoodbookwine oh gosh the martyring! He can’t possibly take a day off in the next two months to go away for the night apparently! People are depending on him Etc etc. And the thing is , I work so many long hours and late nights that my initial feeling is to sympathise with him and support him. But it’s become so extreme that it now appears to be him rather than the job.

He says he wants a family, but it doesn't sound like he would be around and involved to change nappies or any other aspects of looking after small children.

Plus obviously if he's at work operating on someone, he's never going to be the one called by school/nursery to collect a sick child.

Sounds like he wants a family to tick it off a list of life's achievements, rather than actually being involved in the day to day business of actually having one.

As a PP says, in the NHS he does get a decent amount of time off, but then a lot of surgeons use that to do private work.

I have a friend who is a surgeon, they have a full social life and compete their horse frequently and train hard for that.
The only thing their job impacts is alcohol - they don’t drink very often or very much as they are often on call and they sometimes have to cancel things at the last minute.

But this person is a walking red flag @Annabet. Run!

You need to spell out the terms under which you can continue to see him: two days off work a week (bar occasional call), being able to see you twice extra during the week etc. If he can't commit, just walk away!

Otherwise it sounds likes he's auditioning for a surrogate mum basically and he will drop in occasionally.

Some surgeons are utter workaholics, others seem more able to combine work and family life. Where I work there's a story (possibly apocryphal) about a particular surgeon whose wife turned up late one evening with 2 small children in tow. She'd apparently brought them in to remind them what their father looked like.

Unless you want to be like that (ex) wife I'd give this guy a swerve.

He's making a choice to be this unavailable. They work hard but they are allowed to leave the hospital for some annual leave

He just seems so self indulgent at times. I get he’s busy but I work with lots of busy people and they still manage a personal life.

We’ve been trying to book a night away since may.

He sounds like hard work!

We’ve been trying to book a night away since may.

That's ridiculous. Is he one of these 'the place won't run without me?' God complex types. If he is I would steer clear. He may just want to get to the top and is working really hard to do it, either way he isn't going to have any time for you now or in the near future.

Until recently I worked and socialised (work events) with a lot of surgeons. They and their partners had pretty full social lives; multiple holidays, sporty hobbies ie golf, cycling, rugby, cricket. Lots of family time. They all had loads of kids as well. Most of them were married to other doctors, of varying specialties.
There was one workaholic in the group. He was always trying to pick up as much private practice as he could, or sitting on steering groups, advisory boards, writing up papers, attending academic networks etc. He loved academic work and he loved making money in his private practice.
Does he have a busy private practice? Is that the distraction? Or maybe he just genuinely lives for his job. The pet thing I understand. Long hours do not support a certain types of pets well.
But in my experience, surgeons are usually very sociable types, as they enjoy the camaraderie and letting off steam. They had got jam packed family lives as well.
I think you need to have a conversation with him and find out what is going on here.
I hate to say it but are you sure he is definitely single?

@ohthestruggles I know…

I’m seeing him tonight after he’s been on call the last few nights. Maybe not a good time to raise things?

He's entitled to at least 6w leave a year if in the NHS, his choice if he's not taking it.

Yeah that’s all him. I’m a hospital doctor (not a surgeon, admittedly). I’ve climbed Snowdon.

It’s sad for him if he really does want to do these things and he’s missing out (absolutely agree that workaholic behaviour and professional martyrdom is really common in medicine), but I couldn’t deal with that behaviour in a relationship. Also - what happens when he has to move 500 miles away for the next great career opportunity and expects you to uproot yourself and follow him?

Is he on the spectrum? I ask that with seriousness. He sounds quite literal. And also possibly avoidant/anxious. Do you like him?

He won't change, if you don't want to always come second to his job (which he is choosing to do), then cut ties now.

Is he Doc Martin?

I don't think that either of you are wrong but you don't sound compatible.

Yeah this ain’t the job, it’s him…

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