I want to kick DS out TODAY? Totally devastated by what he’s been saying about us.

[FeelingUtterlyBetrayed]

Sorry this is really long but I feel so betrayed and devastated and furious!

This lunchtime as I was sitting on the sofa I noticed a phone on the other arm of it, assumed it was DH’s as he’s off today but noticed the screen was open on what looked like a long message rather than being black and locked. I thought was odd so picked it up out of curiosity.

It was actually DS’s (19) phone, they both have Samsung phones. His phone obviously had been set not to time out.

He had been in a convo with his best friend about moving out, as he’s going to University in September, which apparently he’s desperate to do as we are very abusive to him and exploiting him for money (this was his friend saying this!).

His friend was advising him that he should contact the Uni to ask what help there is for students estranged from abusive parents and said ‘they even hit you man, that’s a crime, you could call the police on them’.

We also never support him and make him feel like shit about himself apparently.

We had have major issues with DS for many years due to extreme laziness and screen addiction. He is also very arrogant and argumentative, knows everything and is always right and other the last few years has become very aggressive and shouty when asked to do anything/called out on his behaviour, even with his younger brother.

We used to get constant calls from school about him not doing homework (even about falling asleep in class) and during his GCSE’s about him not completing coursework. He did much worse than expected but managed to get enough to do his A levels which he wanted to do. I actually tried to dissuade him from doing them as I knew it would be a nightmare to keep him focused after the stress of his GCSE’s but he insisted he wanted to do them and promised he would work hard.

We found out mid way through the course that he was flunking them and his tutor didn’t think it worth him continuing as he was constantly on his phone in class and not doing the work. So a whole year wasted.

Then he decided he wanted to do a BTEC about something he was passionate about so we supported him in that but again I constantly had to get him up in the morning, he was slow to finish his work and wasn’t handing stuff in on time. I had calls just before he was due to finish with concerns he was forecast for a Pass when he needed a Merit to get into Uni and that he hadn’t bothered to attend his English GCSE resit as he’d overslept! Lots of stress at home about this and constantly being on his back about doing the work. Still there were many times he didn’t even bother to go in and I’m amazed he got the Merit!

He also lost his part time job, which was a condition of him doing his BTEC for us as there was extra course fees and materials needed and I told him he had to pay them himself as it was his choice to do the course and be at college for an extra year. He lost that job within 6 months as he couldn’t get up to go to it and wasted all the cash on online gaming anyway!

When I say couldn’t get up, this was an evening job so he started at around 6pm! As he’d be up all night gaming, he’d stumble into college and then go to bed as soon as he got home in the afternoon! On weekends he’d stay up all night and sleep all day. I’d have to go to get up him and drive him there but gave up in the end as he was just taking the piss!

He hasn’t been able to get another job since last March despite me telling him from last year that if he wanted to go to Uni, he needed to get a part time job to save for the accommodation as we have no spare cash to subsidise him (and I didn’t want to with his track record).

There have been lots of arguments and we’ve lost our tempers and struggled with him to try to confiscate his phone (which we still pay for) or get his headphones off his head as he’s woken us up during the night shouting and swearing while gaming. Many times he has woken DH up at 3/4am and DH has a job where he can’t go into work tired!

Since he finished college, he literally sleeps all day and stays up all night. I have offered to pay for gym membership for him (have paid in the past but he ended up not going), given him cash to go out with his mates, tried to get him up and encourage him to do something but he will often sneak back to bed. I’ve looked up jobs for him to apply for for the summer, driven him to interviews, had to drag him out of bed to get ready. He’s even missed interviews by being asleep.

We’ve taken the WiFi but he just plays downloaded games.

I admit DH and I have both lost our shit and poured water over him to get him up and we have had tussles. His mates have also heard us shouting at him to shut up while he’s been online gaming with them as he’s so loud and also to get off the game for dinner or to do a chore he’s been asked to do. He often leaves his dinner on the side for hours after we’ve cooked for him and the other night we got him down to eat it but he left it on the table untouched and went back to bed! We come down in the morning to dirty glasses and plates left lying about. He rarely showers or brushes his teeth. He does nothing around the house.

We are at our wits end but had no choice but to support him to go to Uni as what else is he going to do? He can’t even get a part time job in a cafe!

As he can’t afford the accommodation, he will be living at home and commuting so we have said we want half of his first maintenance loan as we have been continuously paying out for him since he lost his part time job.

I recently paid over £200 for contact lenses which he can’t be bothered to put in, despite saying he wanted them. He has also lost two bikes over the last year by not bothering to chain them up. One was his Dad’s and he had to buy a new one, so we’ve said he can pay us back for that. He also got into an accident due to not looking where he was going and we had to pay for the damage to the car so he owes us for that. I gave him £100 a few weeks ago to buy clothes. So including all the £20 here and there, it’s probably over £1000 he’s had off us which I want back from his first maintenance loan and I think is reasonable. He’ll get around £2800.

He will only have train fare to Uni to pay so will have plenty for going out but apparently we are ‘exploiting’ him for money!

We are not well off as I have had to be a SAHM due to his brother being disabled so we have really struggled financially but always made sure he had everything he needed but apparently he’s embarrassed at us as we are ‘poor’ and all his mates parents are paying for their Uni accommodation and paid for their cars etc!

We have tried so hard to support him while coping with his brother and 2 other DC whilst he has been making himself out to be a victim to his mates and behaving disgracefully at home.

I have told him to pack his stuff and ask his mate if he can crash with him and I wash my hands of him. He’s in bed asleep right now!

I just cannot believe he actually thinks we are abusive to him . I can’t stop crying.

I am totally on your side OP, don’t pay another penny for his phone or anything. Leave food there for him. He’s a lazy sod who Is totally taking advantage of you, And while you let him he will.

toughlove Your username is interesting to say the least. So why haven't you addressed the actual abuse? Surely the most important thing to note here is NOT the money but the violence?

Cut your losses?

Since when do we describe the relationship with our children as cutting our losses. We are supposed to be the only ones in the world that wouldn't dream of 'cutting our losses' when it comes to them. Ever heard of unconditional love? Unconditional support? Plain old good parenting? Jesus wept.

and I’d argue the water is mental) abuse

She didn’t waterboard him!

My autistic 19 year old son sounds very similar - gaming all might, often asleep in the day, doesn't come to meals.

I guess the difference is, i view him as an adult with SEN. Why would I force an adult to eat when he isn't hungry? He can sort something out himself later, or I will plate his food and he can warm it when he is hungry.

If it's a college day, I will help him wake up by sticking my head in and checking he is awake, reminding him it's college, maybe if he's having a really hard time I might offer to stick a bit of toast on for him. On one or two occasions I have wiped his face with a damp flannel. I would never pour water on him. If he insists he is too tired despite that, I insist that he make contact with college to explain. I am not forcing an adult out of bed or to college. He is a grown up. If he drops out of the course it's on him.

I do think you have got stuck in the awkward no man's land where a young person isn't taking responsibility for themselves, but my attitude is that whilst I will help and support I am not any longer "making" an adult do anything. It's their life.

You've enabled every single step of this. Paid 200 for contact lenses he won't wear? Fucking hell. Also your idea of tussles might be his idea of you being abusive. It doesn't sound great to be honest. And i think he's probably got a point. You throw water over him to get him up. What the fuck? If a husband threw water over his wife to get her up, or tussles to get her phone off her - there's a word for that.

Actually waterboarding is marginally safer, in terms of his heart.

I’m sorry but 80% of what you are describing him “owing” you for is basic shit parents are supposed to do when they have a child. You haven’t a nice word to say about your child and openly admit to being abusive, you’re now saying you want to make him homeless or force him to stop his education. Your son is clearly a difficult child but it sounds like you haven’t made life ways for him. University and a chance to find something he wants to pursue in life is probably exactly what he needs.

Also how dare you read his messages? He can say whatever he likes to his friends, none of your bloody business.

I am really upset reading this thread, and seriously wish I knew op's child to offer my support and help. It is distressing to read what he has been through, and still he is trying to make something of his life by going to university against all the odds.

Hope he has decent friends, and the university helps with support and aid. Poor kid.

He sounds like a typical teenager, albeit a rather lazy one. Could he be depressed? I feel very sad reading your post, that your relationship has broken down, seemingly irretrievably. It appears to me that he needs to be treated with a little more kindness and respect. Yes, he’s selfish and irresponsible, but he’s managed to gain a place at uni, well done him! It appears that he is lacking in self esteem. I think I’d try to build bridges. Very difficult situation, I feel for you all, TBH.

Sounds massively depressed to me also

If you said to any teens.. Would you like situation a) alone gaming, not washing, no where to go, parents constantly nagging you, no money, can't do anything, don't know what your going to do in life or b)

Washed out with a busy social life, lots of friends, girlfriend, no where you want to go in life and how to get there, small nagging from parents but halrdy and you not at home any where... Money some, enough and part time job.

Which one would any teen choose???

I kind of can’t believe you made a child pay to do their own BTEC? Like surely that’s literally your job as parents?

The tussles were mutual shoving I suppose trying to get the phone off him or get him off the PC with him pushing back.

FYI, defending oneself from assault is not 'mutual'. "just a shove" "he made me do it"

He sounds depressed and like he is trying to escape his life. And considering even your own one-sided version of events make you sound like an abysmal parent, I’m not surprised he is.

Exactly. This is your version where you've minimised and tried to make excuses to paint yourselves as the victims. And you still come off as horrific abusers.

You and your husband are the ones who needed a reality check about how you have been behaving.

Your DH must earn a lot if DS is only getting a £2800 loan. Is that for the whole year or just the first term? If it's the first term does that mean he's actually getting £8400 yearly? In all honesty I wouldn't ask my DS for money whilst he was studying. I agree that tussles, shouting and the water doesn't sound great, OP but it also sounds like it has come from a place of desperation and a last resort. I think you need to work out other ways of dealing with him because he doesn't great but neither is the way you have responded. Is there any way that he can qualify for more money, get a PT job and study away from home? That might be the best solution. Perhaps the experience of living away from home and doing Uni will help him grow up a bit and take some responsibility for himself.

@MandUs

Pouring water over someone is abusive. As is pulling headphones of them.

I have no advice though as it does sound all very difficult.

Ffs. What a stupid reply. He needs to grow TF up and get sent packing. Hopefully you will be able to accommodate this lazy idiot.

You’re his mother so obviously you are to blame 🤔. Considering the boys behaviour I don’t think your reactions are that extreme. He’d have tested a saint. I have no advice I just hope that time and experience show him a better way. It sounds best if he moves out.

He sounds Exactly like my DS who has ADHD! I think its absolutely worth him leaving and making his way in the big bad world. i wouldn’t chuck him out though; he evidently does have a lot of problems, and is too immature to recognise he needs your help. im sure my DS will improve; and i am looking forward to him starting on his own. it is so challenging, i completely understand your frustration. my DS is 17, he is starting to learn the lessons but it has been a long road and i have started taking anti anxiety pills! they have helped a lot!!

I wonder how many of the posters saying poor kid and that you are abusive have actually lived in a situation this awful?

I grew up wiyh my brother like this and it was utterly horrific. He is still an abusive man and has zero redeeming qualities. Sometimes people are just vile dickheads despite everything. There's not always a reason why.

Please can you tell us op that you are going to help him, and support him and recognise that some of this could and should have been avoided?

You treat this poor child with zero respect and you expect anything else back?!? You realise teenagers are difficult, they are grumpy, they are bad with sleep—these (to a lesser degree) are all normal. While he clealry could have done a lot better you’re not smelling of roses and I think his friend is absolutely right to call you abusive parents. You haven’t helped set him up for life and seem hell bent on sabotaging his next steps

I’ve certainly wanted to throw cold water over my annoying teen to get him up. I haven’t but I completely understand the frustration that leads you to that place. Similarly I get what would lead to ‘tussles’, but that’s really not ok.

You want to kick him out because you’re terribly hurt and angry. I think from what you’ve said that it would be good for him to leave.

It just doesn’t need to be a high octane event. Let him know that it’s time to go and give him a week to find a mate that will put him up. After that, he’s going to have to sort out uni, accommodation and the rest on his own. Don’t help him, he’s too reliant on you sorting out his mess. It might be the making of him.

I remember my dad shouting at me a lot to get out of bed when I was a troubled teen. He never took time to find out how I was feeling, or indeed to get to know me at all. I’ve never forgotten that and it’s done a lot of damage, which I’ve struggled to overcome.

There's two options.
One, he moves out and stands on his own two feet.
Secondly, he stays at home and you all come to an agreement re his behaviour and financial responsibities.
My son lived at home for his first year at uni. I'm a single parent/carer on benefits but I still fed and housed him without charging him rent. I did make him get a part time job. He paid for his travel, his phone and other tech, his clothes, and all his stuff for uni out of his student loans. He actually managed quite well, and I think it was a good compromise.
Can't help you with the behaviour stuff (yours or his) because we never had problems like that.

let him know that it’s time to go and give him a week to find a mate that will put him up

And that is precisely how young people end up homeless and on the streets. Congratulations for giving the worst advice ever.

@Maassi

I have been unfortunate enough to live in a ‘situation like this,’ yes. Horrible to have someone snatch headphones off your head and ‘tussle’ with you because you didn’t hear or respond to them when called. Awful to have water thrown over you when you are sleeping. Disgusting to have your privacy breached by someone reading your private conversation then using it to further bully you.

And it doesn’t really matter if he’s lazy and rude. Bad behaviour doesn’t justify abusive punishment. The parents could have dealt with it appropriately.