Page 23 | I want to kick DS out TODAY? Totally devastated by what he’s been saying about us.

Kanaloa · 13/08/2021 21:10

Do you struggle with coherent thought? Changing a baby’s nappy is a little different from having a ‘tussle’ when somebody won’t do what you want. Pretty clearly you’re just here to be goady but what a nonsense way to go about it.

Anon778833 · 13/08/2021 21:13

@alltheemptyfields

blubbebubba

when you willingly confuse parenting with "abuse" and "assault", there's absolutely not point discussing with you.

I have read on some other thread that it starts from birth: changing a nappy without asking permission from the baby first was "assault" (you honestly cannot make that one up)
and saying "no" to a child was abusive and would damage them for life.

Honestly, there's no discussion possible with some people.

You think

Physically assaulting your adult son
Pouring water on him
Shouting at him

Is 'parenting'? really?

Listener2021 · 13/08/2021 21:24

@quackinglikeaduck

He sounds an awful lot like my teenager with ADHD, and your relationship with him sounds like what I suspect ours might have been like with our son if we hadn't known he had ADHD, and had spent many years blaming everything on laziness and poor character.

Bright kids can have ADHD/ADD too and aren't necessarily hyperactive - they can have the inattentive kind. People with ADHD are much more vulnerable to becoming addicted to things like computer gaming with its immediate rewards, and if they are getting behind with work and have difficult relationships due to their ADHD they're more likely to take refuge in that to avoid dealing with difficult things.

Clever kids with ADD typically do well with school work that needs less concentration when they're younger, but crash and burn when the work gets harder and sustained concentration is needed. The brighter they are, the later in their academic life this happens, but it's still ADD, and it still ends up screwing things up for them.

I really feel for you, because you are hurt and struggling, but if he does have ADHD/ADD, then the chances are that, without realising it, you have been approaching things in a way that will probably have made things worse. He will have been making things worse too by not understanding that about himself. It is really hard. He could have terrible negative self-talk as a result of screwing up over the years and yes he could well be depressed as well.

Knowing someone has ADHD/ADD doesn't mean letting them off and not keeping them accountable for their behaviour - but it does change the way you do it, so you work around attention and impulse control issues rather than going right up against them as if they weren't there and it's just a matter of someone being a good or bad person.

Please please do some reading about it (and ASD and other things that posters have mentioned) and consider whether you could all, despite the best motivations in the world, have missed something that's has been making everything harder for all of you. It's never too late to find out about something like that, and if your son's going to manage a university course and adult life in general he would do so much better for knowing about something like ADHD/ADD now.

This is the most useful thing I have read for ages. It's happened in this family too. It only dawned on us this last year or so. I would really appreciate any book titles you could recommend.

Twillow · 13/08/2021 21:25

Hey OP just wanted to chip in and say how bloody shit it is when posters who have had very few issues with their DCs like to shoulder in and kick you when you're down. I've had this myself on a recent thread.

My only advice is, take a step back. You have done the parenting, all sounds perfectly appropriate to me as a parent who's had a child who won't always get up I definitely get you and have resorted to similar once or twice!

But he's an adult now and needs to start finding out what happens when you don't bail him out. Paying back his debts is fine. Make him give you housekeeping at start of each term for the term. Tell him that when his dinner gets cold you will throw it away. Teach him how to do his own laundery and DO NOT do any for him. If he leaves it in the machine wet, merely put in in his room in a laundry basket. If it smells and he runs out of clothes it will be a learning point. And tell him that he will need to start paying for his phone out of his loan.

Picture him as a lodger. Keep some distance between you, and have in your head what is reasonable/unreasonable to expect from a lodger. It helps me!

alltheemptyfields · 13/08/2021 21:28

Kanaloa

are you unable to post without personal attack and trying to go into a fight?

I am sorry you didn't understand my post, and couldn't follow that people calling "abuse" completely ridiculous scenario is not a new phenomena and we have seen worst and even more ridiculous on this forum, starting from babyhood.

I hope It's easier to understand for you now. You don't have to keep insulting someone you disagree with, or someone you don't understand.

Anon778833 · 13/08/2021 21:30

@alltheemptyfields

Kanaloa

are you unable to post without personal attack and trying to go into a fight?

I am sorry you didn't understand my post, and couldn't follow that people calling "abuse" completely ridiculous scenario is not a new phenomena and we have seen worst and even more ridiculous on this forum, starting from babyhood.

I hope It's easier to understand for you now. You don't have to keep insulting someone you disagree with, or someone you don't understand.

What a nonsense post.

Why are you conflating nappy changes with the issues set out here?

worriedatthemoment · 13/08/2021 21:41

@Itsnotover where did it say thwy physically assaulted, trying to grab a phone isn't the same thing
And shouting , most people shout at there kids at sometime and kids will get shouted at in life
Do you have teenagers?
My friend was a not shout not tell off parent her son used to push her , smash things up and generally walk all over and there were no consequences as too late there had been none
Now she doesn't tell her little one off or believe in time out as thats wrong and abusive now she says ?
Has OP handled it all well prob not , does the Op seem at the end of her tether and exhusted yes
Mn people like to pile on but give no helpful advise and often those who have not had that stage yet
I remember when mine were little a friend saying how she had grabbed hold of her teenager and so nearly lost it , then mine became a awful teen for 4 months and I got it, he would push all our buttons and walking away wasn't always as easy as it sounds

Anon778833 · 13/08/2021 21:48

Yes I do have teenagers as I've already stated. I get on great with them and have never hit, 'tussled' with them or thrown water over them. That's not to say I'm a perfect parent but I'm willing to take on board when I got it wrong and learned from it.

I wonder how this kid was parented as a child?

The OP wanted everyone to say 'poor you'. She needs to take accountability for how things got to this point.

worriedatthemoment · 13/08/2021 21:48

When I say walking away I mean when you have a child standing in your way and being abusive it was hard to walk away and not shout back, luckily for us it seemed a phase and we did stay calm and implemented punishments later when calmed down, but at 19 its hard although you can still have rules in your house which they follow or move out
Mine is now 18 and generally a good kid but he has to get a part time job in order to stay on a 3rd year as financially we need the help. Taking money for rent isn't wring eithwe

worriedatthemoment · 13/08/2021 21:51

@Itsnotover I agree maybe it needs looking at as to how things were before but belive me my now 18 year old had a nightmare 4 months out of nowhere, no one would believe how this quiet well behaved boy behaved behind closed doors in those 4 months , so I sympathise as well
Tbh throwing water over I have threatened mine with this but in this house its done as a joke so we see that different I guess , but it does depend on how the person acts when it happens mine would laugh it off so thats prob why to me it seems less so.

blubbebubba · 13/08/2021 21:52

@alltheemptyfields

blubbebubba

when you willingly confuse parenting with "abuse" and "assault", there's absolutely not point discussing with you.

I have read on some other thread that it starts from birth: changing a nappy without asking permission from the baby first was "assault" (you honestly cannot make that one up)
and saying "no" to a child was abusive and would damage them for life.

Honestly, there's no discussion possible with some people.

Using stupid straw man arguments like the idiotic nappy consent debate to discredit my point... I don't know what to say

Yes it is abusive to control your adult sons finances, phone and get physical when they don't behave ok. It's not ok to do it to a female/daughter, why a son?

I get it's frustrating living with a depressed person with no motivation 100%. You don't act like Op. we are only getting what she admitted to.

blubbebubba · 13/08/2021 21:55

Hey OP just wanted to chip in and say how bloody shit it is when posters who have had very few issues with their DCs like to shoulder in and kick you when you're down. I've had this myself on a recent thread.

Op is kicking her own son when he's down. Having had a brother who killed himself in his early 20s, her son could well be mentally struggling

Playing video games All day and being sluggish etc. Is classic depression. At least ask. Him what's wrong and get down to his level before dousing him in water in his sleep

The fact he's confided in a friend so an I does he's unhappy. Maybe she should explore that before lashing out in frustration fgs

worriedatthemoment · 13/08/2021 22:05

@blubbebubba not sure she is controlling his finances just asked for money to pay back what has been Borrowed and money for rent aa he lives at home is that not the case ?
I agree it needs handling carefully as he does sound unmotivated and in a unhappy place and games can cause real addictions too , personally I would prob look for professional help on how to mend the relationships for Op and her son and hope they can sort it out and that her ds loves uni and it could be just what he needs and the making of him.
Not sure any of us can give exact advice without all info and can only do it based on our own experiences which can be vastly different.

Panickingpavlova · 13/08/2021 22:10

I agree with they are signs of the depression I inkwell someone who was like this and who was parented in a similar way and all I can say is once they got help from the professional they were able to start building a life and move out etc.. But they didn't want to do that at first because that's what depression is!!

boobot1 · 13/08/2021 22:17

@FeelingUtterlyBetrayed

Sorry this is really long but I feel so betrayed and devastated and furious!

This lunchtime as I was sitting on the sofa I noticed a phone on the other arm of it, assumed it was DH’s as he’s off today but noticed the screen was open on what looked like a long message rather than being black and locked. I thought was odd so picked it up out of curiosity.

It was actually DS’s (19) phone, they both have Samsung phones. His phone obviously had been set not to time out.

He had been in a convo with his best friend about moving out, as he’s going to University in September, which apparently he’s desperate to do as we are very abusive to him and exploiting him for money (this was his friend saying this!).

His friend was advising him that he should contact the Uni to ask what help there is for students estranged from abusive parents and said ‘they even hit you man, that’s a crime, you could call the police on them’.

We also never support him and make him feel like shit about himself apparently.

We had have major issues with DS for many years due to extreme laziness and screen addiction. He is also very arrogant and argumentative, knows everything and is always right and other the last few years has become very aggressive and shouty when asked to do anything/called out on his behaviour, even with his younger brother.

We used to get constant calls from school about him not doing homework (even about falling asleep in class) and during his GCSE’s about him not completing coursework. He did much worse than expected but managed to get enough to do his A levels which he wanted to do. I actually tried to dissuade him from doing them as I knew it would be a nightmare to keep him focused after the stress of his GCSE’s but he insisted he wanted to do them and promised he would work hard.

We found out mid way through the course that he was flunking them and his tutor didn’t think it worth him continuing as he was constantly on his phone in class and not doing the work. So a whole year wasted.

Then he decided he wanted to do a BTEC about something he was passionate about so we supported him in that but again I constantly had to get him up in the morning, he was slow to finish his work and wasn’t handing stuff in on time. I had calls just before he was due to finish with concerns he was forecast for a Pass when he needed a Merit to get into Uni and that he hadn’t bothered to attend his English GCSE resit as he’d overslept! Lots of stress at home about this and constantly being on his back about doing the work. Still there were many times he didn’t even bother to go in and I’m amazed he got the Merit!

He also lost his part time job, which was a condition of him doing his BTEC for us as there was extra course fees and materials needed and I told him he had to pay them himself as it was his choice to do the course and be at college for an extra year. He lost that job within 6 months as he couldn’t get up to go to it and wasted all the cash on online gaming anyway!

When I say couldn’t get up, this was an evening job so he started at around 6pm! As he’d be up all night gaming, he’d stumble into college and then go to bed as soon as he got home in the afternoon! On weekends he’d stay up all night and sleep all day. I’d have to go to get up him and drive him there but gave up in the end as he was just taking the piss!

He hasn’t been able to get another job since last March despite me telling him from last year that if he wanted to go to Uni, he needed to get a part time job to save for the accommodation as we have no spare cash to subsidise him (and I didn’t want to with his track record).

There have been lots of arguments and we’ve lost our tempers and struggled with him to try to confiscate his phone (which we still pay for) or get his headphones off his head as he’s woken us up during the night shouting and swearing while gaming. Many times he has woken DH up at 3/4am and DH has a job where he can’t go into work tired!

Since he finished college, he literally sleeps all day and stays up all night. I have offered to pay for gym membership for him (have paid in the past but he ended up not going), given him cash to go out with his mates, tried to get him up and encourage him to do something but he will often sneak back to bed. I’ve looked up jobs for him to apply for for the summer, driven him to interviews, had to drag him out of bed to get ready. He’s even missed interviews by being asleep.

We’ve taken the WiFi but he just plays downloaded games.

I admit DH and I have both lost our shit and poured water over him to get him up and we have had tussles. His mates have also heard us shouting at him to shut up while he’s been online gaming with them as he’s so loud and also to get off the game for dinner or to do a chore he’s been asked to do. He often leaves his dinner on the side for hours after we’ve cooked for him and the other night we got him down to eat it but he left it on the table untouched and went back to bed! We come down in the morning to dirty glasses and plates left lying about. He rarely showers or brushes his teeth. He does nothing around the house.

We are at our wits end but had no choice but to support him to go to Uni as what else is he going to do? He can’t even get a part time job in a cafe!

As he can’t afford the accommodation, he will be living at home and commuting so we have said we want half of his first maintenance loan as we have been continuously paying out for him since he lost his part time job.

I recently paid over £200 for contact lenses which he can’t be bothered to put in, despite saying he wanted them. He has also lost two bikes over the last year by not bothering to chain them up. One was his Dad’s and he had to buy a new one, so we’ve said he can pay us back for that. He also got into an accident due to not looking where he was going and we had to pay for the damage to the car so he owes us for that. I gave him £100 a few weeks ago to buy clothes. So including all the £20 here and there, it’s probably over £1000 he’s had off us which I want back from his first maintenance loan and I think is reasonable. He’ll get around £2800.

He will only have train fare to Uni to pay so will have plenty for going out but apparently we are ‘exploiting’ him for money!

We are not well off as I have had to be a SAHM due to his brother being disabled so we have really struggled financially but always made sure he had everything he needed but apparently he’s embarrassed at us as we are ‘poor’ and all his mates parents are paying for their Uni accommodation and paid for their cars etc!

We have tried so hard to support him while coping with his brother and 2 other DC whilst he has been making himself out to be a victim to his mates and behaving disgracefully at home.

I have told him to pack his stuff and ask his mate if he can crash with him and I wash my hands of him. He’s in bed asleep right now!

I just cannot believe he actually thinks we are abusive to him . I can’t stop crying.

You're not alone, i know a few exactly like this.

Marcee · 13/08/2021 22:23

YANBU .
I think you do too much for him

Stop.paying for his phone. Switch off the wifi. And dont waste your money on his lenses.

He is an adult now.
Either he gets a job to pay for all of those things- and of he wants to stay in your house he should pay a small amount every month towards his keep.

Or if he wants to go to university he needs to start making an effort.

Stop waking him up- that's not your job anymore. He needs to be responsible enough to understand he needs to do this himself.

Dpnt give him any money that he can put towards his gaming. He will have to get a job if he wants to spend a y money. If in education he'll get a maintenance loan.

beckymum · 13/08/2021 22:32

He really sounds like my stepson who turned out to have adhd. He got extra support at uni (mentors saw him every day), and the meds really helped.

You can't change his behaviour through sanctions. It never worked at all for us. The only solution was (bizarrely) him having more responsibility, by going to uni. Also I couldn't see the bad personal hygiene, poor time keeping. So it stressed me out less!

beckymum · 13/08/2021 22:36

@Listener2021 try understanding adhd by dr Christopher green. It really helped us.

roxyro · 13/08/2021 22:40

*Kanaloa

@alltheemptyfields

It’s just you*

No it really isn’t. It’s you and a few other spoilt brats who should probably be in bed!

Twillow · 13/08/2021 23:14

@blubbebubba
I'm sorry about your brother.

It doesn't come across to me as kicking him when he's down. OP is at the end of her tether after doing her best, imperfect as all parents are, to support and encourage a child with issues many of which he is creating for himself. He may be depressed. He may have gaming addiction. He may have ADHD.
None of these are excuses for bad behaviour though!

beckymum · 13/08/2021 23:30

@Twillow impulsive spending, being glued to computer games, difficulty maintaining healthy habits (bedtimes, hygiene), difficulty holding down a job /put as much effort as a school course ideally requires- this isn't "bad behaviour " If he has adhd - it's adhd behaviour.

It's easy to be judgemental when you don't have a child with SEN. I now feel SO guilty for my impatience with my stepson before he was diagnosed.

Kanaloa · 13/08/2021 23:32

**No it really isn’t. It’s you and a few other spoilt brats who should probably be in bed!

Ok hun. Your house your rules babes. Make sure you lamp him one as hard as poss on the way up the stairs. Discipline babes!!!

Dontfuckingsaycheese · 14/08/2021 02:33

"He may be depressed. He may have gaming addiction. He may have ADHD.
None of these are excuses for bad behaviour though."

It is so so sad that some people (around half the posters on here) are so ill-informed. 😟😔😌

roxyro · 14/08/2021 07:48

Kanaloa Ok hun. Your house your rules babes. Make sure you lamp him one as hard as poss on the way up the stairs. Discipline babes!!!

Lamp who? Try not to let your imagination run away with you. The thought processes of some on here and overreactions over an OP asking for advice regarding a difficult DS are pretty scary.

Good luck OP. I wish you well.

Thesandmanishere · 14/08/2021 07:54

Your kid sounds like he has ADHD OP. All the signs are there but he never presented as hyperactive (outdated stereotype) it would never have been picked up.

I want to kick DS out TODAY? Totally devastated by what he’s been saying about us.

Interested in this thread?