I want to kick DS out TODAY? Totally devastated by what he’s been saying about us.

[FeelingUtterlyBetrayed]

Sorry this is really long but I feel so betrayed and devastated and furious!

This lunchtime as I was sitting on the sofa I noticed a phone on the other arm of it, assumed it was DH’s as he’s off today but noticed the screen was open on what looked like a long message rather than being black and locked. I thought was odd so picked it up out of curiosity.

It was actually DS’s (19) phone, they both have Samsung phones. His phone obviously had been set not to time out.

He had been in a convo with his best friend about moving out, as he’s going to University in September, which apparently he’s desperate to do as we are very abusive to him and exploiting him for money (this was his friend saying this!).

His friend was advising him that he should contact the Uni to ask what help there is for students estranged from abusive parents and said ‘they even hit you man, that’s a crime, you could call the police on them’.

We also never support him and make him feel like shit about himself apparently.

We had have major issues with DS for many years due to extreme laziness and screen addiction. He is also very arrogant and argumentative, knows everything and is always right and other the last few years has become very aggressive and shouty when asked to do anything/called out on his behaviour, even with his younger brother.

We used to get constant calls from school about him not doing homework (even about falling asleep in class) and during his GCSE’s about him not completing coursework. He did much worse than expected but managed to get enough to do his A levels which he wanted to do. I actually tried to dissuade him from doing them as I knew it would be a nightmare to keep him focused after the stress of his GCSE’s but he insisted he wanted to do them and promised he would work hard.

We found out mid way through the course that he was flunking them and his tutor didn’t think it worth him continuing as he was constantly on his phone in class and not doing the work. So a whole year wasted.

Then he decided he wanted to do a BTEC about something he was passionate about so we supported him in that but again I constantly had to get him up in the morning, he was slow to finish his work and wasn’t handing stuff in on time. I had calls just before he was due to finish with concerns he was forecast for a Pass when he needed a Merit to get into Uni and that he hadn’t bothered to attend his English GCSE resit as he’d overslept! Lots of stress at home about this and constantly being on his back about doing the work. Still there were many times he didn’t even bother to go in and I’m amazed he got the Merit!

He also lost his part time job, which was a condition of him doing his BTEC for us as there was extra course fees and materials needed and I told him he had to pay them himself as it was his choice to do the course and be at college for an extra year. He lost that job within 6 months as he couldn’t get up to go to it and wasted all the cash on online gaming anyway!

When I say couldn’t get up, this was an evening job so he started at around 6pm! As he’d be up all night gaming, he’d stumble into college and then go to bed as soon as he got home in the afternoon! On weekends he’d stay up all night and sleep all day. I’d have to go to get up him and drive him there but gave up in the end as he was just taking the piss!

He hasn’t been able to get another job since last March despite me telling him from last year that if he wanted to go to Uni, he needed to get a part time job to save for the accommodation as we have no spare cash to subsidise him (and I didn’t want to with his track record).

There have been lots of arguments and we’ve lost our tempers and struggled with him to try to confiscate his phone (which we still pay for) or get his headphones off his head as he’s woken us up during the night shouting and swearing while gaming. Many times he has woken DH up at 3/4am and DH has a job where he can’t go into work tired!

Since he finished college, he literally sleeps all day and stays up all night. I have offered to pay for gym membership for him (have paid in the past but he ended up not going), given him cash to go out with his mates, tried to get him up and encourage him to do something but he will often sneak back to bed. I’ve looked up jobs for him to apply for for the summer, driven him to interviews, had to drag him out of bed to get ready. He’s even missed interviews by being asleep.

We’ve taken the WiFi but he just plays downloaded games.

I admit DH and I have both lost our shit and poured water over him to get him up and we have had tussles. His mates have also heard us shouting at him to shut up while he’s been online gaming with them as he’s so loud and also to get off the game for dinner or to do a chore he’s been asked to do. He often leaves his dinner on the side for hours after we’ve cooked for him and the other night we got him down to eat it but he left it on the table untouched and went back to bed! We come down in the morning to dirty glasses and plates left lying about. He rarely showers or brushes his teeth. He does nothing around the house.

We are at our wits end but had no choice but to support him to go to Uni as what else is he going to do? He can’t even get a part time job in a cafe!

As he can’t afford the accommodation, he will be living at home and commuting so we have said we want half of his first maintenance loan as we have been continuously paying out for him since he lost his part time job.

I recently paid over £200 for contact lenses which he can’t be bothered to put in, despite saying he wanted them. He has also lost two bikes over the last year by not bothering to chain them up. One was his Dad’s and he had to buy a new one, so we’ve said he can pay us back for that. He also got into an accident due to not looking where he was going and we had to pay for the damage to the car so he owes us for that. I gave him £100 a few weeks ago to buy clothes. So including all the £20 here and there, it’s probably over £1000 he’s had off us which I want back from his first maintenance loan and I think is reasonable. He’ll get around £2800.

He will only have train fare to Uni to pay so will have plenty for going out but apparently we are ‘exploiting’ him for money!

We are not well off as I have had to be a SAHM due to his brother being disabled so we have really struggled financially but always made sure he had everything he needed but apparently he’s embarrassed at us as we are ‘poor’ and all his mates parents are paying for their Uni accommodation and paid for their cars etc!

We have tried so hard to support him while coping with his brother and 2 other DC whilst he has been making himself out to be a victim to his mates and behaving disgracefully at home.

I have told him to pack his stuff and ask his mate if he can crash with him and I wash my hands of him. He’s in bed asleep right now!

I just cannot believe he actually thinks we are abusive to him . I can’t stop crying.

I think we are hearing one side of a story here, sounds like he needs some mental health support and what you've been doing is making things worse, you've invaded a private conversation between him and his friends. Bless him, bet half the time he isn't sleeping in bed but paralysed with depression. Instead of getting angry at realising how he feels why don't you reassure him how much you love him ect?

And the onus is on you, as he is your child to have organised help for his gaming addiction, if that is what it is when he was much, much younger. Rather than let him squander his life down the rabbit hole of addiction.

At the very least putting some boundaries in place to ensure he has no access to gaming stuff at 3am!!!! This should have been in place from the beginning and second nature by the time he was old enough to challenge you.

Leave him in bed you dont throw water over someone or use violence, if he ignores your calls to come down for dinner so what, he wont starve,., you shout and tell him to shut up. He might be a lazy arse but maybe neither of you have any respect for each other, stop giving him money, stop telling him what to do, the more you tell him the more he will do exactly the opposite.

you would all be better off if he moved out and went to university.

You sound obsessed with money, don't buy things for him you can't afford and then resent it and demand repayment later.

@alltheemptyfields

Throwing water over others and ‘tussling’ which apparently is pushing and shoving, IS violence. I wouldn’t accept it in my home. Clearly op finds it acceptable in hers.

I also don’t think raising my children and supporting them justifies me being violent to them/aggressive in the future, and I don’t expect gratitude for raising them. That was my choice.

[quote SudokuZebra]@FeelingUtterlyBetrayed what are you laughing at.

You read an adult's phone messages and then get pissy about them . That is controlling.

You want to take 50% of your son's maintenance loan , ( the loans are a pittance anyway). That is controlling.

You were only going to allow him to remain at college, at 17, if he got a part time job as well. That is controlling.

You haven't said one nice thing about being proud of him for getting into university.

And now you've been given a laugh when people point this out to you ...[/quote]
Are you 16years old?
You seem to have zero comprehension about what the OP is describing.

The teen is living at home so of course he needs to pay his parents at least half of his maintenance loan, to cover the costs of food, heating, wifi etc.. Unless you think money comes from Trust Funds?

If he moves out and shares a room, he’ll end up spending a lot more than half the loan on his living costs!

OP, I think you need to ask your son to leave for at least 6 months and let him figure out that’s he’s had it very cushy so far. He might finally grow up or end up in Jail.

Mine grew up!

alltheemptyfields Seriously a child with no money, support can just move out?! Your knowledge is out of date.

Where would he find the deposit for a flat?

I tell you what happens to kids like this, they get moved into assisted living homeless shelters thats what. His choice was to live in an assisted homeless shelter or with his abusive parents? A fine choice for him just beginning in life. What a fabulously helpful post

And he wasn’t ‘being physical’ with his mother over his phone - she was shoving him to try and get it away from him. It isn’t acceptable. Maybe the son is lazy/badly behaved but she is also not behaving well.

It sounds like you have bent over backwards to support him, and tried the tough love approach when that didn't work
I think it's totally reasonable to ask him to pay his own way once he's getting a maintenance loan if you he's still living at home as you'll need a contribution towards bills and food. I would also expect some help with chores around the house which it sounds like he doesn't do. Evidently he is an entitled and ungrateful little shit. YANBU to ask him to move out. And stop paying for his phone.

I cannot believe the majority of the responses. OP, you obviously aren't abusive for pouring water on a lazy young adult's head to get them up and out after months of desperation and wheedling and negotiation. You should of course be repaid the money owed and receive rent from him, like lots of other parents of adults. I too would ask him to leave, and hope that he faced a steep learning curve. No wonder there are so many incapable, entitled adults around when posters like the ones above are so quick to excuse their behaviour.

He sounds depressed and like he is trying to escape his life. And considering even your own one-sided version of events make you sound like an abysmal parent, I’m not surprised he is.

I hope he does contact the university to get help and get away from you all. He’s not exactly lying is he? You just don’t like seeing it written down like that.

You deliberately read his phone (pull the other one that you thought it was your DH’s) You throw water at him when he is asleep, more than once. You regularly get physical with him.

And that’s just the stuff your admitting you do in here. I doubt that’s the true extent of it.

Most people have difficulty through the teenage years, and no, most don’t use resorting to physical (and I’d argue the water is mental) abuse as a tactic to get through them,

Poor kid! Maybe he would behave better if he was given more love and encouragement at home, rather than criticism and punishment. I think he is responding to the way that you treat him. You are the parent, you should lead by example. Throwing water in his face is awful behaviour. Also, I would never take money off my children - we try to save as much as possible for them so they can get a good start in life. Life is hard enough as it is and you need your parents to be on your side. No wonder he is so unhappy and telling his friends about it.

Water is not "violence"

It absolutely is, my abusive ex used to throw freezing cold water over me to wake me up when I had done something he perceived as wrong. To do this to your own child ? (Even a 19 year old) is just spiteful.

Your relationship with your son does not sound at all healthy OP. And he probably would be better approaching student services and asking for support from them.

You need to think about how your actions are impacting your son. Yes he is 19, yes 19 year olds can be massive pains in the arses, but you are the adult in this situation and you need to rise above and show him how adults deal with things.

It’s also really odd you think he owes you money- you are his parents who have financially supported him , like parents do. If you want to cut him off now he is adult then that is up to. I don’t think it will help your relationship though as this will reinforce your son’s opinion that you aren’t supporting him.

Regardless or the rights and wrongs of everything else, the maintenance grant is to pay for living expenses. If he is living at home, he ought to contribute to his board and lodging, that is precisely what it is for.

I wouldn’t be asking for money from him. That’s his money to live on.he’s every right to rent student digs and claim maximum support. If he says you’re unwilling to support him there will be plenty he can claim / borrow. Like most students , he’ll be able to work in the evenings. The hospitality industry for example is screaming for staff. He doesn’t sound like a morning person so evening in a bar would probably suit him.
Teenagers , often are dickheads. Lazy, self absorbed, ungrateful shits. Not all , but most will be like that for a while. If he’s not into drugs or driving illegal cars around then he’s not really given you the headache many parents have.
There’s resentment there, you’re relationship will improve if he’s just coming over for his Sunday lunch and a curry in the week. My daughters salary at 18 was already twice mine ( she’s a clever girl) I still bought her food and the odd item of clothing and never charged her a cent in housekeeping. Now she’s moved out she’s way ahead of her peers in terms of fancy car and nice little property because she was a saver.
At 14 and 16 she was telling me to fuck off several times a day and would smash my home up every month with PMT rage. And you should have seen the characters she brought home . They grow up . They change. Let him get on with it and he will probably surprise you .

I get that parenting a teen isn't easy, but some of that don't sound OK. I take it by "tussle" you mean physically assault, and pouring water over someone to wake them is abusive. I'm not sure expecting him to fund his college education or pay you back for expenses while he was dependent on you is responsible either, he's your child so you are ment to suport him (this might not legally be the case 18-19, but most parents would so I see why he feels hard done by).

I'm not sure what's going on with the uni money to be honest. If you're on a low income and unable to fund him, he would be on full loan & grant so able to afford accommodation. So I'm assuming your income is high enough that the student loan company expects you to contribute, and has reduced the funds available to him because of this. If that's the case it does seem rather unfair to him for you not, especially as you plan to take half of the money he has off him. It may not have been your intention, but you've effectively manipulated the situation to make him unable to leave home, which dose have a feel of financial abuse.

Kids can be a nightmare but pouring water on them and pulling out their headphones is awful. As for wanting half his maintenance loan to pay you back, what do you expect him to live on?

There are some piss poor parents posting on here.

When has it ever been acceptable to push and shove your own child?
Pour cold water on them whilst they are asleep? Which can cause heart attacks by the way due to the shock.

You would rather put him on a 'steep learning curve' than simply support him? I feel so sorry for the teens on the receiving end of these pearls of wisdom, and it is not difficult to see why the teens would at the very first opportunity go NC!!! Abuse thats why even in 2021. So depressing.

Forget about the student loan. Just cut your losses there.

But things would change massively. No more phone, since you pay the bill. WiFi password changed. Computer/tv/video games all gone if you paid for it.

You need a list of what you expect from him eg up and dressed by 10am. Needs to get a job and pay £X housekeeping if he wants to stay in the house. Must do XYZ on particular days.

If he can’t stick to it he’s out. He wants to be an adult and make his own choices but all at your expense. Not happening anymore. Stop giving into him, he hasn’t spoilt himself.

You've just described physically abusing him. It is accurate for him to describe you to others as abusive.

There are two sides to every story and I bet we aren’t getting the full picture from you. Pouring water over your son and ‘tussling’ is abusive and it’s incredibly sad that you can’t see that.

With regarding pouring water over him, can anyone suggest other ways in which to get an adult out of bed without violence?

You leave them, an adult has to learn the consequences of their actions and shouldn't be relying on anyone to get them out of bed.
Violence should never be used to get anyone to do anything. If you can't see that your actions have indeed been abusive then I don't know what to say to you.

I think pouring water over him and physical fights are probably abusive or are certainly not great parenting. He may well be lazy and a pain in the arse but I think you need to think about how you react to him and what is best for all of you.

Pouring water on him and ‘having tussles’ does not sound very healthy. What is ‘tussles’? Are you hitting him?

He obviously doesn’t want to work because you’ve pampered him - paying for his phone? Absolutely stop that nonsense. Buying him things? No. Teenagers earn things. Stop giving him money and he’ll learn to appreciate it. Cut the internet to his room - no more gaming. Can't have a 'gaming addiction' with no fucking games. None of this is hard, and should have been done years ago before he pissed his life up the wall.

He’ll learn what life is like in the big wide world without Mummy paying all his bills.

Water is not "violence"
Some posters make it sound like someone hosing down a tiny 5 year old, not pouring some on the head of a young adult.

Spoken by someone who has clearly never felt (or can empathise) with the physical shock and fear that being woken that way from a deep sleep causes. It absolutely is abuse and not normal behaviour from an adult.