I want to kick DS out TODAY? Totally devastated by what he’s been saying about us.

[FeelingUtterlyBetrayed]

Sorry this is really long but I feel so betrayed and devastated and furious!

This lunchtime as I was sitting on the sofa I noticed a phone on the other arm of it, assumed it was DH’s as he’s off today but noticed the screen was open on what looked like a long message rather than being black and locked. I thought was odd so picked it up out of curiosity.

It was actually DS’s (19) phone, they both have Samsung phones. His phone obviously had been set not to time out.

He had been in a convo with his best friend about moving out, as he’s going to University in September, which apparently he’s desperate to do as we are very abusive to him and exploiting him for money (this was his friend saying this!).

His friend was advising him that he should contact the Uni to ask what help there is for students estranged from abusive parents and said ‘they even hit you man, that’s a crime, you could call the police on them’.

We also never support him and make him feel like shit about himself apparently.

We had have major issues with DS for many years due to extreme laziness and screen addiction. He is also very arrogant and argumentative, knows everything and is always right and other the last few years has become very aggressive and shouty when asked to do anything/called out on his behaviour, even with his younger brother.

We used to get constant calls from school about him not doing homework (even about falling asleep in class) and during his GCSE’s about him not completing coursework. He did much worse than expected but managed to get enough to do his A levels which he wanted to do. I actually tried to dissuade him from doing them as I knew it would be a nightmare to keep him focused after the stress of his GCSE’s but he insisted he wanted to do them and promised he would work hard.

We found out mid way through the course that he was flunking them and his tutor didn’t think it worth him continuing as he was constantly on his phone in class and not doing the work. So a whole year wasted.

Then he decided he wanted to do a BTEC about something he was passionate about so we supported him in that but again I constantly had to get him up in the morning, he was slow to finish his work and wasn’t handing stuff in on time. I had calls just before he was due to finish with concerns he was forecast for a Pass when he needed a Merit to get into Uni and that he hadn’t bothered to attend his English GCSE resit as he’d overslept! Lots of stress at home about this and constantly being on his back about doing the work. Still there were many times he didn’t even bother to go in and I’m amazed he got the Merit!

He also lost his part time job, which was a condition of him doing his BTEC for us as there was extra course fees and materials needed and I told him he had to pay them himself as it was his choice to do the course and be at college for an extra year. He lost that job within 6 months as he couldn’t get up to go to it and wasted all the cash on online gaming anyway!

When I say couldn’t get up, this was an evening job so he started at around 6pm! As he’d be up all night gaming, he’d stumble into college and then go to bed as soon as he got home in the afternoon! On weekends he’d stay up all night and sleep all day. I’d have to go to get up him and drive him there but gave up in the end as he was just taking the piss!

He hasn’t been able to get another job since last March despite me telling him from last year that if he wanted to go to Uni, he needed to get a part time job to save for the accommodation as we have no spare cash to subsidise him (and I didn’t want to with his track record).

There have been lots of arguments and we’ve lost our tempers and struggled with him to try to confiscate his phone (which we still pay for) or get his headphones off his head as he’s woken us up during the night shouting and swearing while gaming. Many times he has woken DH up at 3/4am and DH has a job where he can’t go into work tired!

Since he finished college, he literally sleeps all day and stays up all night. I have offered to pay for gym membership for him (have paid in the past but he ended up not going), given him cash to go out with his mates, tried to get him up and encourage him to do something but he will often sneak back to bed. I’ve looked up jobs for him to apply for for the summer, driven him to interviews, had to drag him out of bed to get ready. He’s even missed interviews by being asleep.

We’ve taken the WiFi but he just plays downloaded games.

I admit DH and I have both lost our shit and poured water over him to get him up and we have had tussles. His mates have also heard us shouting at him to shut up while he’s been online gaming with them as he’s so loud and also to get off the game for dinner or to do a chore he’s been asked to do. He often leaves his dinner on the side for hours after we’ve cooked for him and the other night we got him down to eat it but he left it on the table untouched and went back to bed! We come down in the morning to dirty glasses and plates left lying about. He rarely showers or brushes his teeth. He does nothing around the house.

We are at our wits end but had no choice but to support him to go to Uni as what else is he going to do? He can’t even get a part time job in a cafe!

As he can’t afford the accommodation, he will be living at home and commuting so we have said we want half of his first maintenance loan as we have been continuously paying out for him since he lost his part time job.

I recently paid over £200 for contact lenses which he can’t be bothered to put in, despite saying he wanted them. He has also lost two bikes over the last year by not bothering to chain them up. One was his Dad’s and he had to buy a new one, so we’ve said he can pay us back for that. He also got into an accident due to not looking where he was going and we had to pay for the damage to the car so he owes us for that. I gave him £100 a few weeks ago to buy clothes. So including all the £20 here and there, it’s probably over £1000 he’s had off us which I want back from his first maintenance loan and I think is reasonable. He’ll get around £2800.

He will only have train fare to Uni to pay so will have plenty for going out but apparently we are ‘exploiting’ him for money!

We are not well off as I have had to be a SAHM due to his brother being disabled so we have really struggled financially but always made sure he had everything he needed but apparently he’s embarrassed at us as we are ‘poor’ and all his mates parents are paying for their Uni accommodation and paid for their cars etc!

We have tried so hard to support him while coping with his brother and 2 other DC whilst he has been making himself out to be a victim to his mates and behaving disgracefully at home.

I have told him to pack his stuff and ask his mate if he can crash with him and I wash my hands of him. He’s in bed asleep right now!

I just cannot believe he actually thinks we are abusive to him . I can’t stop crying.

Partly because he's lost two bicycles and caused a collision, incurring huge costs, due to being on the road having stayed up all night gaming, @GrrRightBackAtYou.
Do you think the OP should just suck it up? You wouldn't.

No one else lost patience when a teen doesn’t come down for dinner, answer you calling them, or listen to anything you say as ‘I’ve got headphones on’ as if that’s something that’s out of their control?

Nope. I have two teens that sleep for England, and I would never ever do this. If he can't get up, and you have tried to wake him then he accepts the responsibility for that. You can't start abusing him.

Your situation has spiralled and is out of control, it sounds like he is seeking support. The best thing you can do now is give him as much support as you can to go to university both emotionally and financially and tell him despite the stress of the last few years you really do love him.

You stand to lose much more than you know. He is now aware that your family set up is not normal, that what you are both doing to him is extremely damaging to him. He is aware, please listen. Other families do not shove their children, even demanding annoying ones, and they do not pour cold water on them. This is not remotely okay!

It really is a shit situation, but surely with a kid still at school/college contacts/glasses and clothes are normal parenting costs that you have to pay for for your kids? You’re not owed that money back. So take that aside and look at the rest of it on its own. It sounds like you want him gone already and have decided

SudokuZebra

when you call the OP controlling (while others would call it ... PARENTING)

and make a list of things you disagree with,

why do you ignore all the things that the OP did and pay , and support, her kid for (or with)?

Everything needs to be taken into the context of a whole situation, otherwise it's completely meaningless.

This reads like you've enabled a lot of his behaviour from a younger age and now can't deal with the monster you've created. Stop giving him stuff and stop paying for stuff. Tell him to move out for uni and it will do you all a favour.

Why were there course fees? If he was under 19 when he started they should be free. You would have been entitled to child benefit and tax credits or uc for the period he was at college. Pouring water is abusive.

I think you need to learn how to support your child, poor kid

So these ‘tussles’ were because a boy in his late teens didn’t come to dinner when you called him, which then escalated to ‘mutual shoving’ which isn’t really mutual if you’re the one grabbing and pushing and he’s just trying to stop you from doing so.

I think the best he could do is move out to be honest. Abusive or not it sounds an entirely toxic family situation where anything you do is justified as you ‘lost your shit’ or were at the ‘end of your rope’ and anything he does is villainised.

Does he sound lazy and difficult? Yes he does. Do you sound like you’ve dealt with it correctly? No.

I think if I wanted to get someone off a computer that badly I'd flick the circuit breaker for power to that part of the house.

What sort of things require an 18 year old to tussle for their phone? I definitely didn't experience phone use limits at 18 and would rather have bought my own phone than done so.

It does sound like a nightmare OP, but it also sounds like there's been ongoing and repeated escalation by both parties and unfortunately teenagers aren't known for their well functioning brains in relation to restraint and de-escalation.

Youn should not be taking any of his maintance loan off him. Not on at all.

Agree that you shouldn’t be taking his money from him. He owes you nothing for anything you did for him below the age of 18. He should not have been working while studying to get in to college. And he DID get in to college. You shouldn’t be hitting him or reading his phone messages (tif I’ll admit I would probably have read the message but I would never act on it or admit it to anyone).
He doesn’t sound perfect but he DID get in to college. Please don’t take his maintenance from him. He may need it to move out as you need a break from each other and to reapproach each other as adult-to-adult.

I think he has an online gaming addiction. He’s up all night, every night gaming - of course he can’t function! Yes it is a proper mental health issue and yes he needs help sorting it.
I understand the anger and frustration but I think he’s ill. Gaming addiction is an illness. Any addiction makes a devil out of a decent person.

Although I see lots agree with you - I believe violence, even ‘tussles’ or throwing water over people, has no place in a family home.

Tussles and pouring water on someone's head...

His behaviour sounds exasperating but you can't have the moral high ground with that response. I agree with posters that say he's done well enough to get into university but that doesn't seem to be well enough for you.

It sounds like gaming might be his escape from reality and you're all stuck in a very negative cycle. Perhaps some family therapy would be a good idea? But without becoming defensive about what he says. As there's probably thruth to both sides.

I've never forgiven my mother for what she would describe as 'tussels.'

but surely with a kid still at school/college contacts/glasses and clothes are normal parenting costs that you have to pay for for your kids?

contacts are a luxury, glasses are sufficient so any extra should at least get a bit of gratitude.

At 19, you are old enough to be financially independent. It's normal for parents to support you WHEN you are a student who actually cares and study!

I'm surprised he has the entry requirements for university.

It will be better for you all if he moves out, if that can be afforded.

I sympathise with you but your son sounds depressed and demoralised.

I sincerely think it would be disgusting of you to touch his student loan and deprive him of the only chance he has to go to university and be able to eat and live.

Really unbelievable still that you can even think about doing this - I am sure it is theft or fraud anyway.

I am so sad for this young man trying to grow up and start his life, hampered by abusive parents that are not remotely aware that what they are doing is really damaging.

@Kanaloa

Although I see lots agree with you - I believe violence, even ‘tussles’ or throwing water over people, has no place in a family home.

Water is not "violence"... Some posters make it sound like someone hosing down a tiny 5 year old, not pouring some on the head of a young adult.

Adult who should know better to be physical against his own mother over his phone...

You say you’re not well off, but if he’s only getting £2800 then your DH must be on a six figure salary if you don’t work. Maybe he feels it’s unfair that you’re not helping him out?

That said, he should really get himself a job like most students have to.

With regards to stuff she has paid for, you should pay for your children's glasses/contact lenses whilst they are in college, ( the op would get child benefit to cover that if she was o a remotely small income).

again, glasses are a necessity
Contacts (and anyone really needing glasses always has a pair as spare!) are a luxury.

I kind of feel sorry for him, his behaviour is very similar to what my step sons was at that age, he went on to have a full mental break down and being diagnosed with schizophrenia and bi polar, he’s also suspected ASD (not diagnosed when he was a child). My dd is now almost 18 and is very similar, she’s also on the spectrum. I wouldn’t kick her out but I would be upset if she was telling lies about me being abusive (though I would never chuck water over her).

I would wait and see what happens when he starts his uni course, if he drops out then he will need to find work. It sounds like he needs some support if he can’t even remember to brush his teeth and has poor personal hygiene. Chances are he won’t cope with uni but he might surprise you and it could be the making of him.

Pulling headphones off and putting water sound like the desperate actions of people provoked well beyond anyone's tolerance threshold. If you want to call it abusive, well i think that's misrepresenting what was going on, like when journalists take a quote massively out of context.

Don't suport him to go to uni, he is showing none of the self drive and commitment he should be for such an undertaking. Yes, you can see he needs something to build his future on but he doesn't so you're pushing him uphill all the way if you do and enabling his self delusion.

I'm afraid it sounds to me as though you have a gaming addict on your hands and like all addicts his behaviour is entirely wrapped up in his addiction and won't change unless he sees it needs to.

Start looking at support for families of addicts and get some advice about how you might help him see his problem.

It sounds awful, really sorry to hear you're in this position

@KaptainKaveman the bike and accident is one thing but op specifically says I gave him £100 a few weeks ago to buy clothes. So including all the £20 here and there, it’s probably over £1000 he’s had off us which I want back you don’t ‘give’ money then say you want it back out of a student loan

All the ones claiming "abuse"...

Nothing stops a young man to move out, get a job and find some flat share. At 19, you don't need your parents, you don't need to have someone paying for your video games and you lazying around all day.

At 19, you earn enough to live alone. He's not 15 or 16...