I want to kick DS out TODAY? Totally devastated by what he’s been saying about us.

[FeelingUtterlyBetrayed]

Sorry this is really long but I feel so betrayed and devastated and furious!

This lunchtime as I was sitting on the sofa I noticed a phone on the other arm of it, assumed it was DH’s as he’s off today but noticed the screen was open on what looked like a long message rather than being black and locked. I thought was odd so picked it up out of curiosity.

It was actually DS’s (19) phone, they both have Samsung phones. His phone obviously had been set not to time out.

He had been in a convo with his best friend about moving out, as he’s going to University in September, which apparently he’s desperate to do as we are very abusive to him and exploiting him for money (this was his friend saying this!).

His friend was advising him that he should contact the Uni to ask what help there is for students estranged from abusive parents and said ‘they even hit you man, that’s a crime, you could call the police on them’.

We also never support him and make him feel like shit about himself apparently.

We had have major issues with DS for many years due to extreme laziness and screen addiction. He is also very arrogant and argumentative, knows everything and is always right and other the last few years has become very aggressive and shouty when asked to do anything/called out on his behaviour, even with his younger brother.

We used to get constant calls from school about him not doing homework (even about falling asleep in class) and during his GCSE’s about him not completing coursework. He did much worse than expected but managed to get enough to do his A levels which he wanted to do. I actually tried to dissuade him from doing them as I knew it would be a nightmare to keep him focused after the stress of his GCSE’s but he insisted he wanted to do them and promised he would work hard.

We found out mid way through the course that he was flunking them and his tutor didn’t think it worth him continuing as he was constantly on his phone in class and not doing the work. So a whole year wasted.

Then he decided he wanted to do a BTEC about something he was passionate about so we supported him in that but again I constantly had to get him up in the morning, he was slow to finish his work and wasn’t handing stuff in on time. I had calls just before he was due to finish with concerns he was forecast for a Pass when he needed a Merit to get into Uni and that he hadn’t bothered to attend his English GCSE resit as he’d overslept! Lots of stress at home about this and constantly being on his back about doing the work. Still there were many times he didn’t even bother to go in and I’m amazed he got the Merit!

He also lost his part time job, which was a condition of him doing his BTEC for us as there was extra course fees and materials needed and I told him he had to pay them himself as it was his choice to do the course and be at college for an extra year. He lost that job within 6 months as he couldn’t get up to go to it and wasted all the cash on online gaming anyway!

When I say couldn’t get up, this was an evening job so he started at around 6pm! As he’d be up all night gaming, he’d stumble into college and then go to bed as soon as he got home in the afternoon! On weekends he’d stay up all night and sleep all day. I’d have to go to get up him and drive him there but gave up in the end as he was just taking the piss!

He hasn’t been able to get another job since last March despite me telling him from last year that if he wanted to go to Uni, he needed to get a part time job to save for the accommodation as we have no spare cash to subsidise him (and I didn’t want to with his track record).

There have been lots of arguments and we’ve lost our tempers and struggled with him to try to confiscate his phone (which we still pay for) or get his headphones off his head as he’s woken us up during the night shouting and swearing while gaming. Many times he has woken DH up at 3/4am and DH has a job where he can’t go into work tired!

Since he finished college, he literally sleeps all day and stays up all night. I have offered to pay for gym membership for him (have paid in the past but he ended up not going), given him cash to go out with his mates, tried to get him up and encourage him to do something but he will often sneak back to bed. I’ve looked up jobs for him to apply for for the summer, driven him to interviews, had to drag him out of bed to get ready. He’s even missed interviews by being asleep.

We’ve taken the WiFi but he just plays downloaded games.

I admit DH and I have both lost our shit and poured water over him to get him up and we have had tussles. His mates have also heard us shouting at him to shut up while he’s been online gaming with them as he’s so loud and also to get off the game for dinner or to do a chore he’s been asked to do. He often leaves his dinner on the side for hours after we’ve cooked for him and the other night we got him down to eat it but he left it on the table untouched and went back to bed! We come down in the morning to dirty glasses and plates left lying about. He rarely showers or brushes his teeth. He does nothing around the house.

We are at our wits end but had no choice but to support him to go to Uni as what else is he going to do? He can’t even get a part time job in a cafe!

As he can’t afford the accommodation, he will be living at home and commuting so we have said we want half of his first maintenance loan as we have been continuously paying out for him since he lost his part time job.

I recently paid over £200 for contact lenses which he can’t be bothered to put in, despite saying he wanted them. He has also lost two bikes over the last year by not bothering to chain them up. One was his Dad’s and he had to buy a new one, so we’ve said he can pay us back for that. He also got into an accident due to not looking where he was going and we had to pay for the damage to the car so he owes us for that. I gave him £100 a few weeks ago to buy clothes. So including all the £20 here and there, it’s probably over £1000 he’s had off us which I want back from his first maintenance loan and I think is reasonable. He’ll get around £2800.

He will only have train fare to Uni to pay so will have plenty for going out but apparently we are ‘exploiting’ him for money!

We are not well off as I have had to be a SAHM due to his brother being disabled so we have really struggled financially but always made sure he had everything he needed but apparently he’s embarrassed at us as we are ‘poor’ and all his mates parents are paying for their Uni accommodation and paid for their cars etc!

We have tried so hard to support him while coping with his brother and 2 other DC whilst he has been making himself out to be a victim to his mates and behaving disgracefully at home.

I have told him to pack his stuff and ask his mate if he can crash with him and I wash my hands of him. He’s in bed asleep right now!

I just cannot believe he actually thinks we are abusive to him . I can’t stop crying.

@GingerAndTheBiscuits

and I’d argue the water is mental) abuse

She didn’t waterboard him!

No, but if you want to know why it's abusive, ask your DH next time you're in a deep sleep to wake you up by throwing cold water in your face, then see if you feel the same!

Your son sounds extremely depressed. I would suggest encouraging him to seek medical advice. It is of course up to you if you ask him to leave or not but I suspect that if you do he may spiral into an even worse state.

If you took out the gaming and said your son didn’t take care of his personal hygiene , slept constantly and was unable to carry out normal tasks it would be clearer that he needed help not punishment.

Unless you are so short of money you are about to lose your home it seems a little “off” to ask him for half his loan.

Sounds like a nightmare. If you are on low income he should qualify for the full student loan so it's a great idea for him to use that money to live in halls or a house share. He'll need a part time job too probably.

I do think maybe you should not say you've read the message but just tell him that you think it's best he moves out for uni so he gets the full uni experience. Explain that you feel that your relationship is strained living together and that you feel some space between would help. He needs to be independent of you and he will then recognize everything you him.

As an aside,

These teens and young men will do commit suicide, who do people think they are? What are they like before they try?

Are they the lazy feckless layabouts who just sit un washed, don't do anything, no motivation?

OMG! Some of the pathetic responses on here accusing the OP of abuse really do ram home how and why some younger people have absolutely no sense of responsibility and an all encompassing sense of entitlement.

He deserves to have a cold water wake up call. He’s taking the piss big time and has never had to grow up because his parents are enabling him (no criticism intended). As a mother of sons I know how difficult it can be but it can’t carry on. You have every right to expect some money from him. If it was me I’d hide his xbox or whatever gaming device he’s using.

Ignore the weeping willows on here and get tough. Just remember you’re actually trying to help him.

@roxyro

OMG! Some of the pathetic responses on here accusing the OP of abuse really do ram home how and why some younger people have absolutely no sense of responsibility and an all encompassing sense of entitlement.

He deserves to have a cold water wake up call. He’s taking the piss big time and has never had to grow up because his parents are enabling him (no criticism intended). As a mother of sons I know how difficult it can be but it can’t carry on. You have every right to expect some money from him. If it was me I’d hide his xbox or whatever gaming device he’s using.

Ignore the weeping willows on here and get tough. Just remember you’re actually trying to help him.

Suggesting that someone 'deserves' domestic abuse is disgusting and shameful.

I'm glad you're not my parent.

OP, ignore vile apologists for DV, like this one.

There's a lot of projecting on this thread.

It takes some work to not only excuse the behaviour of the teen, but turn the blame around. And not one thought for the other kids who have to suffer because of their sibling behaviour, but I am sure someone will manage to blame them too! For existing maybe?

People really need to stop with the "domestic abuse" nonsense when someone tries to parent. Not only it's ridiculous, but it makes a mockery of genuine abuse.

If that man ends up living with a woman by the end of the year, at 19 it's not an outrageous concept, the comments will be very different when he repeats his behaviour with her..

I disagree all.

It's about looking at the behaviour instead and intelligently saying "what is this telling me? My son doesn't want to wash, go out, he wants to game all night and he doesn't seem to want go do anything with his life".. Shall I call him lazy, hate him and make it plain we want rid..

Or shall we tackle why he feels like this? Make him feel better /motivated and help to get him a purpose back?

no wonder some kids are a nightmare younger and younger with people refusing to parents and put boundaries. Unfortunately, by the time they are adult, it's disastrous for all concerned.

OP's last post was this:
'Flame away. I’m out. This thread is just bear baiting'.
Maybe time to stop posting now? I don't feel good about the reaction from some posters to this thread...

A pp beautifully illustrated how she managed to put down boundaries whilst simultaneously engaging with her son and "working on their relationship".

Do you see?

Ok I have a few thoughts.

Pouring water over someone is abusive.

At 19, you can't take his phone off him. So just stop paying for it and tell him he needs to fund his own contract.

Most importantly, though - it's time you took responsibility for how your child has turned out. So many parents blame the child for being this that and the other without being able to accept that you've created this situation.

You don't seem to have one kind thing to say about him. It's a hard thing to take on board but we all need to do it when stuff like this happens.

OP
I dont know if you are still reading but I've come on to see fucking pages of crazy stuff .
Abusive for chucking a bit of cold water over a lazy entitled teenager. Probably not the most mature way of dealing with it, but hardly abuse.
And talk of him being depressed and sad. Well I'm not minimising MH, he could well be. He could also be just a cheeky little sod!! FFS.
Theres a world away from abuse to a parent (who has probably, like me been too soft with boundaries from the start) who is at the end of their tether.
I've read something crazy from a poster of a 14 yr old who who suggests altering bedtimes etc to a child who is up all night.
The world has gone mad!!
When I was a teenager I'd have good wallop is I behaved like half the spoilt kids of today.
And I'm not condoning smacking kids as punishment. But Jesus .

OP, ignore vile apologists for DV, like this one.

Dancing bear - you typify your entitled upbringing and illustrate my point beautifully and I’M glad I’m not your parent too!

*goldfinchfan

OMG
OP poured water over a lazy 19year old man.

Who could move out if he wants. Therefore not really abuse is it?
It was move by OP to get the lazy bugger up.

Yes it would be better not to except she didn't want DS to throw away his chance to make something better in life for himself.
A mistep at his age is hard to make up.

I think a talk with some kind of mediation? or counselling at the intended Uni might help.
DS must take responsibility HE is NOT a child.
the current generation of teens is so soft.
My generation had issues with parents who were proper abusive and so we left home and made our own lives
It was hard but no one lay in bed expecting mum and dad to do everything for them.
So I cannot see the DS side at all.

OP's husband poured water over her because she was being lazy.

OP could move out if she wants but chooses to stay. So it's not really abuse is it?

OP's husband wanted to turn the TV off because OP was being a lazy bugger and not helping with the housework. They ended up having a tussle. OP could move out if she wants so that means it's not abuse.*

I don't think your so called response to my post made any sense at all.

My gen did it differently so no I don't think a 19 year old man needs coddling unless there are some special circumstnces.

The way things are progessing some people will expect their AC to be looked after for ever and erver and never grow up at all.
It was bloody hard for me to go it alone at the age of literally that day 17 years old but it was better than allowing my mother to keep abusing me.
So I made my adult decision. Why can't 19 year olds do this?

I am sorry I have made a pigs ear of this post.

Nobody’s advocating refusing to parent and set boundaries. Modelling good behaviour and a complete intolerance to violence in the family home is actually one of the ways my husband and I parent.

But op isn’t really interested in any opinions or suggestions on how she could resolve this. She doesn’t want to reflect on her own behaviour at all, only to have everyone agree her son deserved any treatment she decides on and it’s totally justified. I wouldn’t want this for my sons, or my daughters. What does it model? What does it teach? That if someone pisses you off enough you are justified in pushing them, shoving them, pouring water over their head - and they should be grateful you haven’t lamped them one.

hat if someone pisses you off enough you are justified in pushing them, shoving them, pouring water over their head

oh please, why the need to twist an already bad situation?

Is that what you understood? That the OP was so annoyed she creeped into her son's bedroom at night to pour water over his head as a revenge gesture?

Obviously if you are changing the whole situation and narrative, you can end up with abuse - when something completely different happened in real life..

I’m not changing the narrative. OP literally said she was at the end of her tether and poured water over her son to wake him. She lost her temper because he refused to wake up and threw water over his head. I’m not going to keep explaining it to you because clearly you have very different ideas to me about parenting.

I don't need to explain anything, I can read the OP, I am just curious why you are so involved in this thread and why you need to put your own version of event over and over again.

Why is it you want to validate this behaviour @alltheemptyfields? Do you really honestly believe it’s acceptable? Is it how you treat your children and you want to validate it because of that?

Do you really, honestly think this is good parenting?

@alltheemptyfields

hat if someone pisses you off enough you are justified in pushing them, shoving them, pouring water over their head

oh please, why the need to twist an already bad situation?

Is that what you understood? That the OP was so annoyed she creeped into her son's bedroom at night to pour water over his head as a revenge gesture?

Obviously if you are changing the whole situation and narrative, you can end up with abuse - when something completely different happened in real life..

It doesn't really matter why you've assaulted someone.

DV is always wrong. Always.

The apologists on here horrify me. It does women such harm to say that the message around DV is conditional, that it is excusable, if someone's 'at the end of their tether', if the other party has behaved badly etc. Because these are the things that every single man who has knocked his partner about has said to himself.

@alltheemptyfields

I don't need to explain anything, I can read the OP, I am just curious why you are so involved in this thread and why you need to put your own version of event over and over again.

Some of us are involved because we have been on the wrong end of DV, and passionate want to see an end to it - whatever the sex of the victim, or their relationship to the scumbag perpetrator.

Why are you here?

@thedancingbear

Glad to see someone else agrees that this isn’t acceptable. While questioning my motives @alltheemptyfields has been unable to answer me when asked why they are so desperate to validate this type of behaviour. Personally I think those who justify violence in the household are very wrong.