I want to kick DS out TODAY? Totally devastated by what he’s been saying about us.

[FeelingUtterlyBetrayed]

Sorry this is really long but I feel so betrayed and devastated and furious!

This lunchtime as I was sitting on the sofa I noticed a phone on the other arm of it, assumed it was DH’s as he’s off today but noticed the screen was open on what looked like a long message rather than being black and locked. I thought was odd so picked it up out of curiosity.

It was actually DS’s (19) phone, they both have Samsung phones. His phone obviously had been set not to time out.

He had been in a convo with his best friend about moving out, as he’s going to University in September, which apparently he’s desperate to do as we are very abusive to him and exploiting him for money (this was his friend saying this!).

His friend was advising him that he should contact the Uni to ask what help there is for students estranged from abusive parents and said ‘they even hit you man, that’s a crime, you could call the police on them’.

We also never support him and make him feel like shit about himself apparently.

We had have major issues with DS for many years due to extreme laziness and screen addiction. He is also very arrogant and argumentative, knows everything and is always right and other the last few years has become very aggressive and shouty when asked to do anything/called out on his behaviour, even with his younger brother.

We used to get constant calls from school about him not doing homework (even about falling asleep in class) and during his GCSE’s about him not completing coursework. He did much worse than expected but managed to get enough to do his A levels which he wanted to do. I actually tried to dissuade him from doing them as I knew it would be a nightmare to keep him focused after the stress of his GCSE’s but he insisted he wanted to do them and promised he would work hard.

We found out mid way through the course that he was flunking them and his tutor didn’t think it worth him continuing as he was constantly on his phone in class and not doing the work. So a whole year wasted.

Then he decided he wanted to do a BTEC about something he was passionate about so we supported him in that but again I constantly had to get him up in the morning, he was slow to finish his work and wasn’t handing stuff in on time. I had calls just before he was due to finish with concerns he was forecast for a Pass when he needed a Merit to get into Uni and that he hadn’t bothered to attend his English GCSE resit as he’d overslept! Lots of stress at home about this and constantly being on his back about doing the work. Still there were many times he didn’t even bother to go in and I’m amazed he got the Merit!

He also lost his part time job, which was a condition of him doing his BTEC for us as there was extra course fees and materials needed and I told him he had to pay them himself as it was his choice to do the course and be at college for an extra year. He lost that job within 6 months as he couldn’t get up to go to it and wasted all the cash on online gaming anyway!

When I say couldn’t get up, this was an evening job so he started at around 6pm! As he’d be up all night gaming, he’d stumble into college and then go to bed as soon as he got home in the afternoon! On weekends he’d stay up all night and sleep all day. I’d have to go to get up him and drive him there but gave up in the end as he was just taking the piss!

He hasn’t been able to get another job since last March despite me telling him from last year that if he wanted to go to Uni, he needed to get a part time job to save for the accommodation as we have no spare cash to subsidise him (and I didn’t want to with his track record).

There have been lots of arguments and we’ve lost our tempers and struggled with him to try to confiscate his phone (which we still pay for) or get his headphones off his head as he’s woken us up during the night shouting and swearing while gaming. Many times he has woken DH up at 3/4am and DH has a job where he can’t go into work tired!

Since he finished college, he literally sleeps all day and stays up all night. I have offered to pay for gym membership for him (have paid in the past but he ended up not going), given him cash to go out with his mates, tried to get him up and encourage him to do something but he will often sneak back to bed. I’ve looked up jobs for him to apply for for the summer, driven him to interviews, had to drag him out of bed to get ready. He’s even missed interviews by being asleep.

We’ve taken the WiFi but he just plays downloaded games.

I admit DH and I have both lost our shit and poured water over him to get him up and we have had tussles. His mates have also heard us shouting at him to shut up while he’s been online gaming with them as he’s so loud and also to get off the game for dinner or to do a chore he’s been asked to do. He often leaves his dinner on the side for hours after we’ve cooked for him and the other night we got him down to eat it but he left it on the table untouched and went back to bed! We come down in the morning to dirty glasses and plates left lying about. He rarely showers or brushes his teeth. He does nothing around the house.

We are at our wits end but had no choice but to support him to go to Uni as what else is he going to do? He can’t even get a part time job in a cafe!

As he can’t afford the accommodation, he will be living at home and commuting so we have said we want half of his first maintenance loan as we have been continuously paying out for him since he lost his part time job.

I recently paid over £200 for contact lenses which he can’t be bothered to put in, despite saying he wanted them. He has also lost two bikes over the last year by not bothering to chain them up. One was his Dad’s and he had to buy a new one, so we’ve said he can pay us back for that. He also got into an accident due to not looking where he was going and we had to pay for the damage to the car so he owes us for that. I gave him £100 a few weeks ago to buy clothes. So including all the £20 here and there, it’s probably over £1000 he’s had off us which I want back from his first maintenance loan and I think is reasonable. He’ll get around £2800.

He will only have train fare to Uni to pay so will have plenty for going out but apparently we are ‘exploiting’ him for money!

We are not well off as I have had to be a SAHM due to his brother being disabled so we have really struggled financially but always made sure he had everything he needed but apparently he’s embarrassed at us as we are ‘poor’ and all his mates parents are paying for their Uni accommodation and paid for their cars etc!

We have tried so hard to support him while coping with his brother and 2 other DC whilst he has been making himself out to be a victim to his mates and behaving disgracefully at home.

I have told him to pack his stuff and ask his mate if he can crash with him and I wash my hands of him. He’s in bed asleep right now!

I just cannot believe he actually thinks we are abusive to him . I can’t stop crying.

Cant believe im reading "OP you are not abusive" and 'I threw water over him and tussled and his mates hear us shouting at him to shut up" in the same thread.

It's really worrying that people can't identify abuse even when it is literally spelled out for them.

@KurtWilde
I am very much for positive parenting, discussion and negotiation but there has to be a limit, surely?
Gaming and wifi rights would be removed until the DC can do the minimum of necessary things required of a near-adult.

Throwing water would be a last resort but many of my teenage students have told me their (loving) parents have had to do this to get their child out of bed and into school.

There’s a lot of hurt and anger here. My only advice - for what it’s worth - is to think about the relationship over the long term. I’m assuming you love each other not withstanding this flare ups. It may be the right answer is that he moves out and finds his own way. But there’s a real difference between that being something that you work through and something that happens rashly in anger when he has a very different perspective of the situation. The difference is whether he believes you love him and so when he’s matured and grown will come back to you or whether you’re willing to risk him never leaving on a low ebb and never getting your relationship back on track.

Has there been any positive parenting just sounds like a ton of negativey and giving him a tab so far.

Misbeehived this is what I've been trying to say.

I feel desperate for you.
I think your son is a feckless & entitled. You have given above & beyond most parents would have done.
I would have taken screen shots of his bleating, victimized lies.
& I would show him the door.
Helping him further is pointless.
I am horrified at the bashing you are getting from MN.

Woodchiponthewall i agree with you. Its all very well and good to comment if you have never experienced dealing with a DC like that. My DS has taken curtain poles off the wall in rage, bashed holes in his wall with weights, smashed his own phone down to his perceived injustices towards himself. He has been abusive to me and down right nasty to the point I was handing over large amounts of money due to feeling guilty when he was at uni and supposedly struggling. Despite him getting 100 a week from us. We found out he hadnt used his student loan to pay his rent..he had spent it ...so that was another debt, He was someone that always had a reason or excuse or someone to blame for everything.... i dont think OP has helped here by chucking water and ripping headsets off his head but i get it.

@FMSucks : I think that both of my parents fit that category, after reading online. No, they both have died now, therefore, I won't ever get an apology. My dad, he only told me that he loved me once: before he died.

So after you “accidentally” went through your son’s phone, you want to kick him out, because he’s been talking to his friends about how abusive you’ve been.

You have been abusive OP. And you don’t sounds like supportive parents at all. You seem obsessed with money rather than supporting your child, as a parent should. I hope he moves out and finds his feet so he can start learning healthy relationships with other people, because he’s clearly not learning it at home.

OP what part of London is his uni? as there are halls that are not 10k and would leave a couple to a few grand to live off plus if he can get himself a job to support himself.

He needs to move out for all your sake. Once out with a roof over his head and bit of money in his back pocket, it's his sink or swim time.

@FeelingUtterlyBetrayed

54321nought

I have sons this age.

I do feel quite upset for your son, just going by your own description of how you have treated him - no one deserves that

And please don't take his money, that is for his living expenses, which you are supposed to be topping up, not taking away from him

He is living at home! So I’m supposed to top up his loan which is supposed to be for living expenses, and pay them as well!

WTF! Are people on here really that stupid and unable to read?

Admit my wrong doing?

I’ll be totally honest. I don’t feel bad AT ALL for pouring a bit of water on my adult son’s head to get him out of bed to get to college after several attempts at getting him up when I already had a younger child and another teen with ASD and severe learning difficulties to get out of the house too!

If I hadn’t he wouldn’t have got into University now would he? Something that was apparently his dream. If he’d been kicked out of college, all that would happen would be him at home living off us and sleeping day, up all night playing games in his pants!

Nor do I feel bad about the ‘tussles’ which would never had happened if he hadn’t behaved like he does. He’s lucky we’ve never lamped him!

Flame away. I’m out. This thread is just bear baiting .

but he is your dependant, and he will have been assessed as your dependant, meaning that it will be assumed that you are supporting him, and his loan will be to top up your support-

so yes, it costs to have a dependant at university - but its sort of what you sign up for at the sperm-meets-egg-stage.

[quote Amore2]@KurtWilde
I am very much for positive parenting, discussion and negotiation but there has to be a limit, surely?
Gaming and wifi rights would be removed until the DC can do the minimum of necessary things required of a near-adult.

Throwing water would be a last resort but many of my teenage students have told me their (loving) parents have had to do this to get their child out of bed and into school.[/quote]
No child or adult should have water thrown on them to get them up. Period.

@wewereliars

Youn should not be taking any of his maintance loan off him. Not on at all.

Tosh. Our son is at university away from home and easily half of this is rent, the rest food and living. If he was living at home, he would be expected to pay (a lot less of course) rent. How can any parents - unles they are pretty well off - support another adult with no financial help for three years!

I wouldn’t worry about what he text to his friend. A lot of teenagers mouth off to their friends about how they hate their families, it’s fairly normal. And it does sound like the dynamic at home is unhealthy from both sides tbf. He has a gaming addiction which is the core problem but your reactions are sometimes unhealthy too. Have you discussed with him how staying up all night will ruin his life? It’s him who will have to find it in him to change that. I don’t see how you can do anything unfortunately. Don’t take half his maintenance loan and don’t read his texts again - that all sounds very wrong. I would go out of my way to sort uni accommodation for him as you all can’t live like this for another 3 years. On his own he will sink or swim. He may surprise you. If he doesn’t and he sinks you will have to be supportive but treat him like the adult he is (he has to move out and work to pay his rent and decide what he wants to do with his life). Sounds like everyone needs a break from each other really from your OP. It must be very hard for everyone

from reading your posts, to me it sounds like he has huge issues with executive function to the point he cant even sustain the things he wants to do, let alone those that he needs to do, and needs constant support, which he then pushes back at. Sounds like a total nightmare.
You think hes being lazy and useless and he thinks youre pushing too hard and feels under attack. The only thing he seems to be able to tolerate is the online world. He will be in for a big shock if he does leave home and has to hold down a job or run a household.

honestly though, the extent of his need for escapism and the lack of executive function, seems quite extreme and it seems to go back quite far into childhood, and now all of you have had enough.

Have you considered inattentive type ADHD/ADD. A lot of his behaviour is dopamine seeking and demand avoidant
Im not surprised that you are massively hurt and insulted by reading his interpretation of events, as its absolutely infuriating and frustrating trying to support someone like this and its driven you to act in ways that are neither helpful or ok, but sounds like youre at your wits end.

I cant think of any miraculous strategies unfortunately. If he did have a form of adhd, then there is treatment for that, but at the moment, youre at total loggerheads and at war, which is not the right place to solve anything. Would be better to turn wifi off at a designated time than have fights at 3am or have a discussion about house rules that take into account that hes a young adult.
If he really is impossible to live with then you could write a letter evicting him for him to take to the council, saying that your relationship has broken down and he cant come back.

@EachandEveryone

Why cant he get halls of residence?

Because he's not entitled to full studen loans, and the op has decided not to make the expected parental contribution.

(Full maintenance loans in London is £12,300 but her DS would only get £10,300 based on her partners income of 40k.)

I think he does need to stand on his own two feet for a while and to realised what you do for him and what it's like without that support.
Going off to university is a good time to start.

You must feel hurt and resentful but youneed to take a big deep breath first and have a proper conversation and agreement with him. He has been a tenth level pain in the arse, but you do need to be the 'grown ups' here about what happens next.

@SaharaFlower - it is so tough I know. I urge you to try and heal and get the help you need though. It will be the making of you. It's absolutely awful when you face it head on, but so worth it when you start to come out the other side. Keeping a journal is cathartic and I can also recommend Pia Mellody's book "Facing Codependency" x

Sprogonthetyne

but there are halls in London which are not that expensive, granted this late in the day there maybe slim picking, and not, all singing n dancing with an ensuite. but a room of his own and best way to make a fresh start away from home and living independently. plus he will get a little more in maintenance for living away from home.

that's why I asked what area the uni is in. with a couple of £1000 change from the loan and a part time job it is do able.

I’m sure he could have got into halls of residence if he did a job over summer and didn’t blow cash on gaming.

I’m sure he could have got into halls of residence if he did a job over summer and didn’t blow cash on gaming he'd have needed a LOT of money for halls and jobs weren't exactly easy to come by recently.

@mynameisbrian

Woodchiponthewall i agree with you. Its all very well and good to comment if you have never experienced dealing with a DC like that. My DS has taken curtain poles off the wall in rage, bashed holes in his wall with weights, smashed his own phone down to his perceived injustices towards himself. He has been abusive to me and down right nasty to the point I was handing over large amounts of money due to feeling guilty when he was at uni and supposedly struggling. Despite him getting 100 a week from us. We found out he hadnt used his student loan to pay his rent..he had spent it ...so that was another debt, He was someone that always had a reason or excuse or someone to blame for everything.... i dont think OP has helped here by chucking water and ripping headsets off his head but i get it.

Again, her child hasn’t done any of these sorts of things

Weren’t there hospitality jobs that had difficulty recruiting? Guess it depends on location, but bbc ran a few articles. He sure isn’t helping himself, but will probably blame other people for his problems.

he'd have needed a LOT of money for halls and jobs weren't exactly easy to come by recently

no the loan pays for the halls, and yes you can find halls for £6500ish for 40 weeks in London(might all be gone now) then with what's left from the loan and getting a part time job, he would have enough to live on.

Either way I'd be leaving no stone unturned in finding a halls and getting him out and off to uni in September, he can then find a job once he's moved out.

I think it is the best interest of him and OP.

My niece is studying in London amd got the same as what this son is getting. £700 a month for uni halls and it has been totally affordable food is cheap in London and they drink at home. It’s been the making of her. She’s not even had to get a job yet and we bung her £50 every now and again. She’s grown up loads.