I want to kick DS out TODAY? Totally devastated by what he’s been saying about us.

[FeelingUtterlyBetrayed]

Sorry this is really long but I feel so betrayed and devastated and furious!

This lunchtime as I was sitting on the sofa I noticed a phone on the other arm of it, assumed it was DH’s as he’s off today but noticed the screen was open on what looked like a long message rather than being black and locked. I thought was odd so picked it up out of curiosity.

It was actually DS’s (19) phone, they both have Samsung phones. His phone obviously had been set not to time out.

He had been in a convo with his best friend about moving out, as he’s going to University in September, which apparently he’s desperate to do as we are very abusive to him and exploiting him for money (this was his friend saying this!).

His friend was advising him that he should contact the Uni to ask what help there is for students estranged from abusive parents and said ‘they even hit you man, that’s a crime, you could call the police on them’.

We also never support him and make him feel like shit about himself apparently.

We had have major issues with DS for many years due to extreme laziness and screen addiction. He is also very arrogant and argumentative, knows everything and is always right and other the last few years has become very aggressive and shouty when asked to do anything/called out on his behaviour, even with his younger brother.

We used to get constant calls from school about him not doing homework (even about falling asleep in class) and during his GCSE’s about him not completing coursework. He did much worse than expected but managed to get enough to do his A levels which he wanted to do. I actually tried to dissuade him from doing them as I knew it would be a nightmare to keep him focused after the stress of his GCSE’s but he insisted he wanted to do them and promised he would work hard.

We found out mid way through the course that he was flunking them and his tutor didn’t think it worth him continuing as he was constantly on his phone in class and not doing the work. So a whole year wasted.

Then he decided he wanted to do a BTEC about something he was passionate about so we supported him in that but again I constantly had to get him up in the morning, he was slow to finish his work and wasn’t handing stuff in on time. I had calls just before he was due to finish with concerns he was forecast for a Pass when he needed a Merit to get into Uni and that he hadn’t bothered to attend his English GCSE resit as he’d overslept! Lots of stress at home about this and constantly being on his back about doing the work. Still there were many times he didn’t even bother to go in and I’m amazed he got the Merit!

He also lost his part time job, which was a condition of him doing his BTEC for us as there was extra course fees and materials needed and I told him he had to pay them himself as it was his choice to do the course and be at college for an extra year. He lost that job within 6 months as he couldn’t get up to go to it and wasted all the cash on online gaming anyway!

When I say couldn’t get up, this was an evening job so he started at around 6pm! As he’d be up all night gaming, he’d stumble into college and then go to bed as soon as he got home in the afternoon! On weekends he’d stay up all night and sleep all day. I’d have to go to get up him and drive him there but gave up in the end as he was just taking the piss!

He hasn’t been able to get another job since last March despite me telling him from last year that if he wanted to go to Uni, he needed to get a part time job to save for the accommodation as we have no spare cash to subsidise him (and I didn’t want to with his track record).

There have been lots of arguments and we’ve lost our tempers and struggled with him to try to confiscate his phone (which we still pay for) or get his headphones off his head as he’s woken us up during the night shouting and swearing while gaming. Many times he has woken DH up at 3/4am and DH has a job where he can’t go into work tired!

Since he finished college, he literally sleeps all day and stays up all night. I have offered to pay for gym membership for him (have paid in the past but he ended up not going), given him cash to go out with his mates, tried to get him up and encourage him to do something but he will often sneak back to bed. I’ve looked up jobs for him to apply for for the summer, driven him to interviews, had to drag him out of bed to get ready. He’s even missed interviews by being asleep.

We’ve taken the WiFi but he just plays downloaded games.

I admit DH and I have both lost our shit and poured water over him to get him up and we have had tussles. His mates have also heard us shouting at him to shut up while he’s been online gaming with them as he’s so loud and also to get off the game for dinner or to do a chore he’s been asked to do. He often leaves his dinner on the side for hours after we’ve cooked for him and the other night we got him down to eat it but he left it on the table untouched and went back to bed! We come down in the morning to dirty glasses and plates left lying about. He rarely showers or brushes his teeth. He does nothing around the house.

We are at our wits end but had no choice but to support him to go to Uni as what else is he going to do? He can’t even get a part time job in a cafe!

As he can’t afford the accommodation, he will be living at home and commuting so we have said we want half of his first maintenance loan as we have been continuously paying out for him since he lost his part time job.

I recently paid over £200 for contact lenses which he can’t be bothered to put in, despite saying he wanted them. He has also lost two bikes over the last year by not bothering to chain them up. One was his Dad’s and he had to buy a new one, so we’ve said he can pay us back for that. He also got into an accident due to not looking where he was going and we had to pay for the damage to the car so he owes us for that. I gave him £100 a few weeks ago to buy clothes. So including all the £20 here and there, it’s probably over £1000 he’s had off us which I want back from his first maintenance loan and I think is reasonable. He’ll get around £2800.

He will only have train fare to Uni to pay so will have plenty for going out but apparently we are ‘exploiting’ him for money!

We are not well off as I have had to be a SAHM due to his brother being disabled so we have really struggled financially but always made sure he had everything he needed but apparently he’s embarrassed at us as we are ‘poor’ and all his mates parents are paying for their Uni accommodation and paid for their cars etc!

We have tried so hard to support him while coping with his brother and 2 other DC whilst he has been making himself out to be a victim to his mates and behaving disgracefully at home.

I have told him to pack his stuff and ask his mate if he can crash with him and I wash my hands of him. He’s in bed asleep right now!

I just cannot believe he actually thinks we are abusive to him . I can’t stop crying.

branaluese

The only thing he seems to be able to tolerate is the on line world

^^ the really sad thing is though, no one has to tolerate anything, there is a way out and many young men try it.
Just worth bearing in mind when people are calling him a lazy slob who needs to wake up and get out therr for a big shock..

@Panickingpavlova

branaluese

The only thing he seems to be able to tolerate is the on line world

^^ the really sad thing is though, no one has to tolerate anything, there is a way out and many young men try it.
Just worth bearing in mind when people are calling him a lazy slob who needs to wake up and get out therr for a big shock..

Agreed. My DBro gamed a LOT during his darkest months and he barely touches it now.

Poor kid probably uses it as an escape.

And to think we haven't even heard the ops son's version, this is the watered down version of op as abusive as it is...

Two sides of the story, and I think a very different one would be emerging if only he had a voice on here.

If it helps OP, I had a similar situation with my DS (16). I would get soooo wound up asking repeatedly for him to do stuff - chores, schoolwork, looking for a job. He'd ignore me and I'd end up in a rage losing my temper. It never turned physical but there was lots of yelling and door slamming.

Then my own father intervened and made me realise that DS wasn't the problem. I was. I wanted DS to behave like an adult whilst treating him as a child. At that age you simply cannot make them do something they don't want to, it's just physically impossible.

So I stopped nagging. I let him be an adult and make mistakes. If he didn't put his bike away and it got nicked, he's learnt a lesson. If he didn't revise and failed his exams, he's learnt a lesson. If his dinner gets cold, he eats it or goes hungry. I would ask once, warn him of the consequences and then let it go. Very difficult and counterintuitive to let him make stupid choices but I realised he needed to fail.

I also stopped funding him. No phone, no gym membership, no money for gaming or gadgets. If he wants something he earns it, either with a job or by doing chores.

I also worked on spending time with him and fixing our relationship. I asked about his gaming, praised him when he did something good, showed interest in him.

The change in him was almost immediate. He stopped being moody, got off his arse and got a job, started revising (11 GCSEs passed today!) Next week he's doing a 200 mile bike ride by himself, all planned out by him!

I know it's hard but please take a long hard look at how YOUR behaviour is making your DS feel. He must feel pretty shit to know his mum doesn't like him much. Throwing him out will only reinforce that belief and ruin his self esteem. Try a different tact. Toughen up by cutting the money, make him accountable, but also show him that he's valued by you. You might be surprised how he responds to that approach.

I know a lot of teens trouble or not who game, its fun... It's been a lifetime saver to many in covid times.

But yes to some it's an escape, a life line.
I know many who simply couldn't do it when their lives where back in track because they had to get up in the morning and these things naturally sort of themselves out m

Pinot poney, good stragety and I bet your taking an interest in the gaming and simply engaging with him as a human had the biggest effect.

@MrsPelligrinoPetrichor

I’m sure he could have got into halls of residence if he did a job over summer and didn’t blow cash on gaming he'd have needed a LOT of money for halls and jobs weren't exactly easy to come by recently.

He had a job. He threw it away as he was too busy gaming and sleeping. Read the OP and stop making excuse after excuse for his shitty behaviour !

@Panickingpavlova

Pinot poney, good stragety and I bet your taking an interest in the gaming and simply engaging with him as a human had the biggest effect.

I think it's easy to see children's as "ours", as if they somehow belong to us and, by default, should respect and obey us. Which is, of course, nonsense.

Opening our eyes to see them as we would any other person in our life changes things dramatically. I wouldn't dream of throwing water over a colleague to get them to a meeting on time... so why on earth is it acceptable to do that to my son, simply because he's not doing what I've decided he should..?

I have agree pinot, and this is why it's important to keep an eye on the ultimate goal, and that no one has to endure anything from life or anyone or see anyone.

We can't take anything for granted.

You've all got into a horrible struggle, and it will only stop when you stop pushing and he stops pushing back. You can't make a person grow up and take responsibility for himself while at the same time making him dinner every night, going to great lengths to wake him, drive him places, and providing everything he needs to facilitate a life of leisure and irresponsibility.

I think he should move out.

It would give him the chance to see what he's made of.

I think you should draw a line under it all and move on.

Let him have his full grant. Don't give him a penny if he can't make it stretch.

I agree with Branleuse too. (Demand avoidance, ADD/HD, depression)

@PinotPony

If it helps OP, I had a similar situation with my DS (16). I would get soooo wound up asking repeatedly for him to do stuff - chores, schoolwork, looking for a job. He'd ignore me and I'd end up in a rage losing my temper. It never turned physical but there was lots of yelling and door slamming.

Then my own father intervened and made me realise that DS wasn't the problem. I was. I wanted DS to behave like an adult whilst treating him as a child. At that age you simply cannot make them do something they don't want to, it's just physically impossible.

So I stopped nagging. I let him be an adult and make mistakes. If he didn't put his bike away and it got nicked, he's learnt a lesson. If he didn't revise and failed his exams, he's learnt a lesson. If his dinner gets cold, he eats it or goes hungry. I would ask once, warn him of the consequences and then let it go. Very difficult and counterintuitive to let him make stupid choices but I realised he needed to fail.

I also stopped funding him. No phone, no gym membership, no money for gaming or gadgets. If he wants something he earns it, either with a job or by doing chores.

I also worked on spending time with him and fixing our relationship. I asked about his gaming, praised him when he did something good, showed interest in him.

The change in him was almost immediate. He stopped being moody, got off his arse and got a job, started revising (11 GCSEs passed today!) Next week he's doing a 200 mile bike ride by himself, all planned out by him!

I know it's hard but please take a long hard look at how YOUR behaviour is making your DS feel. He must feel pretty shit to know his mum doesn't like him much. Throwing him out will only reinforce that belief and ruin his self esteem. Try a different tact. Toughen up by cutting the money, make him accountable, but also show him that he's valued by you. You might be surprised how he responds to that approach.

This is fantastic!

If he's definitely got a uni place and is planning on going, why not help him find some student accommodation so that he can move out rather than be thrown out. This way you'll both be rid of each other in a few weeks, he won't be on the streets and some time apart could be good for you both.

Universities are supposed to cater for all budgets, as well as the 5* catered halls at £10k a year there should also be budget self catered halls for the less well off. He doesn't have to stay in halls, he could rent a room in a student flat. He'd need a deposit (which he will lose if he carries on the way he is) and a month or two's rent in advance. After that he'll need to budget for the rest of his loan and get a part time job if it isn't enough.

@goldfinchfan

The OP bought contact lenses for DS and you are blaming her for this?

Because it is not safe for DS.

He is a man.

Not 7 yeas old ffs!

Was that directed at me? I wasn't intending to blame her for buying the contact lenses, just pointing out that perhaps he's not a great candidate for them. He pushed her into buying them but seems not to have bothered with them, but actually it might be for the best, rather than him leaving them in too long and ending up with them fused to his eyeballs. Also, if he is lax about personal hygiene, there is a risk he might get an eye infection if he is also lax about how he handles the lenses.

OP - sorry if you felt I was adding to your burden of stress - that was not my intention at all.

Why are so many people trying to liken this parent/ teen relationship to a husband and wife one?
Youre not supposed to parent your partner.
All parenting would be coercive control.

@SudokuZebra i have told my 18 yeat pld that of he wishes to do a third year at college then he needs to get a part time job , not controlling just a financial fact as cb does not cover his food , clothes , lunch etc, maybe the Op said it as the son had done a levels and not bothered so wanted to make sure he was serious
We can't all afford to keep out kids in education without some help from them

@deliawhsmith because you still pay fees for some courses it may only be £150 or so but many have fees, do you have children who have gone to college

Hmm, I can see Ops point of view. My 17 year old has in the past not gone to school due to all night gaming. It's not much fun when the attendance officer is threatening you and you have younger disabled kids to think about too. In my mind I'd have set the hose on him if I thought it would have worked. I was utterly desperate and had zero support and 360 degrees of judgement.

Thankfully my ds has peaked early and co.ing back to the world of being civil.

He hasnt got a job and often tells me that his £15 a week pocket money wont cover his train fair and gym membership. I just point out that a job might make his tiny weekly shortfall.

I was working at 16. I worked night in a factory 9pm till 6am then went to uni by 8am when I was 19-20

I dont think it kills them to get a taste of reality. My eldest was borderline on a ADOS so there is something else at play or was when he he was school refusing. But that didnt wash with the attendance officer or school.

I dont think there is anyway to tackle these things perfectly. You just have to do whatever to survive it and come out the other side with a relationship. I could have jumped off a bridge at some points. No cared but if I could have left and never returned I would have on a few occasions. I was almost suicidal. No one cared except to judge us. It was the shitest most lonely time in my life. I couldnt talk to family as they judged me. I phoned the samaritans instead.

I think that with financial help comes responsibility. He is showing none to your or the other members of your family. If he thinks his lazy take on life works leave him to find out how effective it is at putting food on the table and a roof over his head.
He might in time understand that he needs to fall in line and start working for a living. Maybe he will then have some respect for your views on his current poor behaviour.

It's pretty obvious that if he goes to university he's not going to pass the first year and he'll end up in debt.

There is no point in a boy like this going to university and living at home at the same time. It's just not fun.

Having said that I think the relationship has deteriorated to the extent where everyone would be better off if he left home. If he decides to go to university then that's his decision. He needs to be told very clearly that you will not pick up his debts. Other students can afford to stay in accommodation. Why is it that he can't do that? I think you need to sit down with his dad, not your partner, and him. Come up with a plan whereby he can go to university and live in and get a part-time job. He should know that the alternative is just leaving home and getting a full-time job.

He needs to watch the movie till the end and see how his life will be if he takes each route. The only unavailable route is staying at home and doing nothing.

Yup 4, two through a levels, so no fees, one through a year of AS then a 2 year college BTec but no fees as under 19 when started and one straight through a BTec, who then did a further year vocational again, no fees as under 19.

If there are fees, they should be paid by the parent imo anyway and not claimed back from the child. @worriedatthemoment

The only thing he seems to be able to tolerate is the online world

the really sad thing is though, no one has to tolerate anything, there is a way out and many young men try it.

Just worth bearing in mind when people are calling him a lazy slob who needs to wake up and get out there for a big shock.

My thoughts too. Sometimes we get so bogged down in "parenting" that we forget that a lot of stuff is unimportant. Ultimately grades are not the be all and end all. What we want is healthy kids who are equipped to create a good life for themselves. That can happen in a variety of ways, not just via a university degree, but all ways include feeling loved and cherished by family.

@deliawhsmith lucky you then we had to pay out £150 in fees and another £100 in kit needed both years despite ds being 16&17 and fie him to do third year also is fee but not sure how much
Supposedly its for any trips or other things not that he had any

I definitely think it could be worth investigating ASD/ADHD especially as his brother has it. He doesn't sound malicious, just struggling. It sounds like he does have the intentions but perhaps due to executive dysfunction can't manage to follow through with them.

He didn't demand money for drugs/booze, he asked for contact lenses (maybe for his confidence) and said he would pay for them. The job hasn't transpired, annoying of course but common enough with teenagers.

He has achieved other things though. He doesn't sound all that bad at all! I'm afraid it really comes across like you dislike him, and he obviously feels that way. It's hard for kids to tell their friends when things aren't ok in the home.

There is nothing inherently evil about staying up late at night, I'm a shift worker and I do it! Maybe your son would suit a shift work job.

My own 14 year old is suspected ASD and is awake at the moment watching Rick and Morty. I've come home from work and stuck my head in to ask how he is, we've had a lovely little chat and a laugh. When it's time for school to start we will work on getting his body clock adjusted in advance, in a kind way, no water involved. My son has his meals at different times and eats in his room (selective eater) and the world hasn't ended. There are ways of meeting in the middle.

@FeelingUtterlyBetrayed

With regarding pouring water over him, can anyone suggest other ways in which to get an adult out of bed without violence?

I guess I should have just left him there, so I got done by the truancy officer and he got kicked out of college then?

The tussles were mutual shoving I suppose trying to get the phone off him or get him off the PC with him pushing back.

No one else lost patience when a teen doesn’t come down for dinner, answer you calling them, or listen to anything you say as ‘I’ve got headphones on’ as if that’s something that’s out of their control?

Ok to shout and swear at 3am waking everyone up then refusing to take headphones off and get off game?

OP the best thing would have been for him to get kicked out of college. That's him facing the consequences of his actions. That's a better way of dealing with it.

And to leave home. It's just not working, veering between extremes - paying for his bikes, gym memberships, phones, expensive contact lenses, money to go out with mates on the one hand, then throwing water in his face (horrific) , tussles and demanding money from his student loan on the other. It's totally dysfunctional. There's no middle ground.

You say throwing water in someone's face to wake them up is without violence but it really isn't. Reading his personal messages is totally out of order, people vent in private, to get their feelings out, that wasn't for you to read. Now it's created major drama, with you crying. As for the tussles, that's just bad for everyone, it's all gotten too dramatic and out of control. Sounds like a lot of drama.

He sounds extremely unhappy as do you. I do think it's time for him to get some independence and if he continues to live at home for you all to apologize for various things and try to establish some more straightforward, consistent and less extreme behaviours and boundaries.