Rubbish holiday

[LorelaiVictoriaGilmore]

I don’t know why I am posting really - just stuck in bed and feeling so miserable. Dh and I were worked so hard last year and our relationship has really suffered through the pandemic. I booked three weeks in the UK with our two children just so we could be somewhere else and reset a bit. And it’s awful. During the first week, I had some work stuff to wrap up and DH had to job interviews. Kids decided about a week into the holiday to start going to sleep at 10pm. We are now at the end of week two. Dh and I are exhausted. I have a stomach bug or food poisoning and I am stuck in bed. Dh got rejected from one job but the other one really wants him - he just had to get through a psychometric test. He tried to do it this evening while I was sick in bed. Naturally the kids played up and he got locked out of the test. He is now stomping around and shouting. The toddler is in bed with me. I would just go home (dh wants to) but it’s ds’s birthday on Wednesday and everything is organised here not at home - so we really can’t. I can’t believe the holiday has gone so wrong. We’ve had some nice-ish times but we are both so tired and have to go back to 50-60 hour working weeks. I feel like it might break us. 😢

Maybe rather than a whole life change, a few baby steps in different directions is whats needed?

Senior associates in law firms often work harder than the partners. So all the stress, none of the rewards. If you're not going for partnership, why are you doing it?

Also, you spend a lot to make the life work - high housing costs, taxis because you're always in a rush, nanny, nanny overtime, clothes, convenience food etc. It costs a lot to be available 24/7.

It sounds like there's not a lot of slack (including financial) in your lives.

Im hoping @Xenia sees your thread @LorelaiVictoriaGilmore

She has done everything you are doing and has lots of no nonsense opinions that might seem harsh but they have made her a very successful woman.

OO, I don't work in law but SH does, we therefore know lots of people in various different roles and life situations. DH left a city firm to go in house as he didn't want partnership, but later went back to private practice in a regional firm (so less money but fewer hours!) and has gone the partnership route because as PP have said, it was the worst of both worlds being in a senior role long term.
From my observations it's incredibly hard work to get where you've got to and I'm amazed you only did about 3 hours work on holiday! From what I've seen

• senior roles in a city firm are impossible with a family unless the other parent works part time or at most strictly 9-5
• the person we know who is most successful professionally works 5 days a week in London where he has a flat, while his partner and children live elsewhere, he goes home for (some) weekends. I don't know how she does it on her own, but it works for them and his career.
• it does get better as children get older. I think you're in the hardest bit.
• it always seems to be the women who wonder how to change and adapt their careers, women who have worked just as hard and are just as good at their jobs step back. Not a surprise I suppose but you shouldn't have to if you don't want to.

What is it you love about your career (is it particular clients or cases you wouldn't get anywhere else?) Is SA or counsel role in the long term going to give you that? Would anywhere else - in house, regional firm, consulting role? Law has changed so much over the last 15-20 years I think the expected path has to change too.

Re holidays with young children, ours have always been expensive, exhausting disasters, I've given up until mine are older and we've never tried going for longer than a week! So it's not your fault, get through the test any way you can and stop blaming yourself.

And she has 5 kids!!!

Sorry, that should be OP and DH in the first line

Right now the private school fees aren’t really the issue. For two kids, I guess it will be about £3k per month or maybe a little more. We haven’t gone for super expensive private schools - not big names.

What is killing us right now is that one child is costing us £3k per month between nanny and nursery. Add on £1.5k for the other child’s school fees and £2k on mortgage for a house (4 bed semi-detached - nice but not fancy!) and that’s £6.5k up in smoke every month before you even get started.

To jump off the hamster wheel, I need to work out how to slash that in half…

@ssd

Im hoping *@Xenia sees your thread @LorelaiVictoriaGilmore*

She has done everything you are doing and has lots of no nonsense opinions that might seem harsh but they have made her a very successful woman.

I’m hoping she doesn’t, she will probably just tell OP to suck it up or she’s a failure Bear in mind that she is (allegedly) very successful but her marriage imploded and her ex screwed her over.

Surely private school is only going to get more expensive if you are going to continue down that road

@LorelaiVictoriaGilmore

Right now the private school fees aren’t really the issue. For two kids, I guess it will be about £3k per month or maybe a little more. We haven’t gone for super expensive private schools - not big names.

What is killing us right now is that one child is costing us £3k per month between nanny and nursery. Add on £1.5k for the other child’s school fees and £2k on mortgage for a house (4 bed semi-detached - nice but not fancy!) and that’s £6.5k up in smoke every month before you even get started.

To jump off the hamster wheel, I need to work out how to slash that in half…

Leave London? Apologies if I’m wrong in the assumption that’s where you are

Re holidays with young children, ours have always been expensive, exhausting disasters,

Yup. We do holidays because our DC loves them (they're still talking about how great the last one was, even though it rained the whole time and DH and I both thought it was awful ). But holidays are a big effort...I end up planning them and doing most of the packing and they are not a rest for me.

My DH is actually taking our DC three days early without me for our next holiday and then I'm joining them later (freelance...I have a project to finish and need some child-free time). That was my condition for going on holiday this time. I'm going to have a lovely three days to myself, get up-to-date with my work and then join them later with some semblance of serenity.

In your shoes, all the packing and organising in a new place is a step too far. You'd have done better to stay at home, keep the nanny for some hours, order food in and do some local days out.

Sounds difficult OP, lots of dynamics going on. Keeping a marriage alive, when having kids is hard enough, but demanding careers add extra pressure and now a young puppy. You have a lot of your plate. Only you can decide the best way forward for you and your family. Good luck.

I'm a law firm partner. I'm also supposed to be on holiday today - just a long weekend. But I've spent a fair bit of this morning answering emails and was reviewing an urgent document at 10pm last night... It is what is expected now but I look back on the country solicitors of a generation ago and wonder where it all went wrong! They had a much better lifestyle and generally one if the nicest houses in the area, etc.

I also felt a bit lost during mat leave and can't figure out how to get off the hamster wheel. So I just get on with it.

We usually stay with grandparents for holidays so we get some help but this year has been so tough, I thought we needed some time as a family of 4… well, 5 including the puppy!

Clearly I am a couple of cuckoos short of a Swiss clock, as dh would say…

Why can't you just do weekend type breaks where you turn off for the weekend. If you can't do that then your job isn't leading to a good life.

@eurochick I have certainly just been getting on with it. Billing 200 hours per month for most of the last six months - I am a bit broken now.

Also, just for context, my last attempt at a staycation at Easter was even worse… by day 4 of that holiday I was in A&E, had emergency surgery on day 5… out of hospital on day 8… are some people just not meant to have holidays?!

@Eviethyme I can usually switch off for most of the weekend. I tend to finish stuff off on a Friday (my so-called day off) and then do a few hours on a Sunday night (at least at the moment as I have a key client in the middle east)… but don’t look at my phone much in between.

@LorelaiVictoriaGilmore

Right now the private school fees aren’t really the issue. For two kids, I guess it will be about £3k per month or maybe a little more. We haven’t gone for super expensive private schools - not big names.

What is killing us right now is that one child is costing us £3k per month between nanny and nursery. Add on £1.5k for the other child’s school fees and £2k on mortgage for a house (4 bed semi-detached - nice but not fancy!) and that’s £6.5k up in smoke every month before you even get started.

To jump off the hamster wheel, I need to work out how to slash that in half…

I wonder if you are really at the hardest point at the moment and that once both children are in school full time things will ease off a little financially. It seems very sad that all the wonderful work you have done for your career may be going up in smoke. I'm in awe of what you do and I hope you manage to get a bit of a good time on this holiday

Can't you leave the kids with the nanny for a week, and go off on your own holiday, just the two of you? By the sounds of it, what you both really, really need is ALONE time , to connect. Even if for a long weekend and you both stay in a hotel where the kids are are with the nanny or grandparents. Like a mini honeymoon. You really really need alone time as a couple, to connect. I never thought much of it, but I have read before where some couples put their spouse/marriage above their child, so they keep their marriage good and united, and that supposedly augers well then in flow on affects for the children. Maybe there is a point there, some truth to that put spouse before children philosophy. Because you can't parent affectively if you are both two steps away from a nervous breakdown. Going on holiday with your children when you both individually are that close to a nervous breakdown isn't wise, it will just make your breakdowns come even quicker.

When you go home, book again for a week's (at least) holiday for just the two of you, and have the DC stay with grandparents for the week or the nanny. You both need alone time, time to bond, to connect, to just....BE, as a couple. No children, no distractions. No contact with them either, unless an emergency. You won't survive much longer if you don't.

Do you need a nanny if kids are at school? An au pair would be cheaper, especially live in.

If you're working so hard, it doesn't seem worth it if your holiday budget is £3k.

@cervixuser Thanks! 🥲

@Hoppinggreen Already outside London although we do discuss moving further out. Will make for longer commutes (less of an issue now we are both only going in 2 days a week) and a longer school run though. Difficult to know whether it would be worth it. Although if we could get a bit more space, a live-in nanny / au pair might be possible…

I agree that this stage of family life is the craziest and once both are in full time school things will get easier, both financially and mentally. So perhaps hold off making any decisions until that point arrives then you can assess as a family if it's sustainable. Your lifestyle choices are expensive so am I correct in thinking that you need two incomes? If not, would your dh become a sahd? This is the tough choice in life, you earn the big bucks but the sacrifice is clear from your post. You are stressed, tired, not connected to one another. This may improve over time, but then arguably you have lost precious family time that you can't get back where you are emotionally present.

@Amboseli I am hoping we won’t need a nanny once my younger one starts school - but that won’t be until 2022.

@sHREDDIES19 We could live on one income but dh is still the higher earner. He really hates his job though… I love mine but earn less…

I actually think getting ill on holiday when you a stressful job is quite common, it’s like your body knows it can as it’s not needed for work.